‘Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” — Comedian Jon Stewart
Okay, here’s a hot (no pun intended) topic that seems to be front page news. At the very least, it’s worthy of discussion.
I’m an open-minded, environmentally sensitive person. I want clean water and air just like everyone else. I also want environmental policies based upon sound reasoning – not lies. I don’t appreciate fear-mongering. I’ve been told the world’s gonna end so many times, I feel like I’m living an REM song.
A couple of years ago, John Coleman (the founder of the The Weather Channel) dubbed global warming ‘the greatest scam in history.’ He accused global media of colluding with ‘environmental extremists’ to alarm the public. Of course, he was verbally tarred and feathered by the mainstream media. They treated him like Tiger Woods at a Promise Keepers convention.
Now we have hard evidence that some leading proponents of global warming have been practicing junk science. In what’s being called Climategate, confidential emails (more than 1,000 e-mails and 3,000 other documents) from leading global warming scientists have been leaked to the public. We now know what they’ve been saying in private – and it’s not flattering.
The upshot is that these influential climate scientists have been rigging data to prove what they want to prove. They’ve selectively ignored data that conflicts with their desired result, and have taken steps to censor opposing scientific views. They refused to submit their conclusions to full peer review. (More on Climategate here.)
The scandal raises troubling questions. Naturally, it has also inspired a funny YouTube video:
For years we have been warned of a global warming crisis. But it’s now widely understood that over the past 11 years the earth has actually COOLED. This is one reason “global warming” is being replaced with the phrase “climate change.” One way or another, the climate is changing.
Okay, so the climate is changing. The earth is 4,540,000,000 years old. Hasn’t the planet’s climate ALWAYS changed? When has the earth’s climate remained constant? Wasn’t the earth once a molten mass? Didn’t the continents drift apart? Any notion that the earth and its climate should remain constant, we’ll ALL agree, is preposterous.
Here’s where it gets interesting. If you look at unaltered “Climategate” historical data, the earth was a much WARMER place a few centuries ago — when Vikings were exploring the seas!
Of course, Vikings didn’t use internal combustion engines. So what was causing all the global warming? Is it possible that the earth naturally warms and cools on a cyclical basis? If the current trend is indeed towards warming, is mankind the cause? Or is the earth just doing what the earth has always done?
My mind isn’t made up.
What do YOU think?
Who do we believe?
Is man-made global warming a proven scientific FACT?
Or is it, as John Coleman said, the greatest SCAM in history?
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Sean
Thanks Eddy, and I agree — we all should be earth friendly and not pollute.
With regard to the environment, there should be a lot of common ground even amongst even those who disagree about global warming. Yet often extremists dominate the conversation.
By the strictest definition of “pollute,” all of us who breathe are polluters because we all exhale CO2. Extremists say that having children is the greatest form of pollution because it so dramatically increases one’s “carbon footprint.”
I’d like to think we can establish common sense policies to protect the environment, regardless of global temperature patterns. We should be able to keep the earth clean and well maintained… and keep on breathing too. 🙂
Eddy Shepherd
Global warming or not. We should be earth friendly and not pollute. It just makes good sense. I sure don’t want to live in a garbage dump.
Sean Michael
Thank you, Sensi, for sharing your unique perspective. Are you suggesting that global warming could help prevent yeast infections? I must confess that I haven’t previously considered the possibility. At the very least, you get a gold star for original thinking.
George Will had an interesting column in today’s Washington Post about global warming: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/19/AR2010021903046.html
Will’s conclusion: “A religion is what the faith in catastrophic man-made global warming has become. It is now a tissue of assertions impervious to evidence, assertions that everything, including a historic blizzard, supposedly confirms and nothing, not even the absence of warming, can falsify.”
Apparently the former director of Britain’s Climatic Research Unit states that there has been no statistically significant warming for 15 years.
Will also implies that during the Medieval Warm Period (circa 800-1300) global temperatures may have been warmer than today’s.
I don’t know what to conclude, but it appears the current scientific consensus is anything but. There’s no doubt we’ll be hearing much more about this issue in the near future! Hopefully we can formulate common sense environmental policy based upon sound scientific reasoning.
Sensi
For ages and ages, I have been searching for a solution to yeast infection because it causes so many unnecessary ailments and pain. There are many countries where it doesn’t exist. Why do women in these particular regions not procure yeast infections, I ask? Possibly GLOBAL WARMING?
Sean Michael
LOL Kriilin, thank you for Rickrolling RV.net. Finally, someone has brought some gravitas to the discussion! 🙂
Kriilin Namek
Here’s some reading. It is all about follow the money. And regarding “hide the decline”, no you cannot substitute real temps in for proxy data (dendrochronology). Proxy data is only reliable when you can correlate with observed results, because its purpose (in this case) is to extrapolate backwards in time before we had direct measurements. This isn’t the clothes store no “mix and match” allowed. If I did that when I was a chemist, I would have been fired.
Secondly, please don’t associate this with pollution, peak oil, or energy independence. They’re related, but different topics. So can everyone please
1) Check our hubris as a species ie we can make that large of difference
2) Check our Western “rich guilt” that our lifestyle is killing the planet?
Nuclear weapon proliferation, and big rocks hitting the planet pose a far greater risk, and besides if AGW (anthroprogenic global warming) IS real, why the assumption its a bad thing? That wild-eyed, oil-shilling publication National Geographic is wondering the same:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/07/090731-green-sahara.html
http://climateaudit.org/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/01/13/the-next-big-scam-carbon-dioxide.aspx
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d12-Hungarian-Physicist-Dr-Ferenc-Miskolczi-proves-CO2-emissions-irrelevant-in-Earths-Climate
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100019821/climategate-with-business-interests-like-these-are-we-really-sure-dr-rajendra-pachauri-is-fit-to-head-the-ipcc/
and finally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ok, I’m sure the last one got you riled up!
Glen
Governments and organizations are getting rich on fear mongering and the majority are sucking it up like rain falling on a desert. Every time I hear about climate change I feel a giant tug on my wallet. Why can’t people figure it out. Instead of fear why are we not working on areas where we know there is a problem, like water polution for instance? It is because it is too factual thus no one can create fear on facts. This is the biggest joke in history and those that believe it have tunnel vision so bad one might as well talk to a brick wall. Finally a few people are waking up, how refreshing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rodney
I heard a scientist (I can’t recall his name) a few years ago speak about this subject and he said basically the same thing you did, that the earth does go through warming and cooling trends.He had a chart showing the latest trends and showed that we had come out of what he called the modern ice age in the 70’s and early 80’s and that we were actually coming to the end of the latest warming trend. This was approximately 3 yrs ago and the last 3 yrs of winter has been colder and we’ve gotten more snow.
He also totally disproved the global warming theory that Al Gore caame up with.
While I believe our pollution may be harming the environment, particularly out water and air, mother nature will restore herself.
Cee
Thanks be to God this has finally hit the main stream.
‘Global Warming’ and now called ‘Climate Change’ (because everyone knows it’s been colder) are all a big scam!…PERIOD!!
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is a life gas!! and a trace gas in our atmosphere!!
I ask everyone and NO ONE can tell me how much carbon dioxide is presently in our atmosphere, but they all say ‘it’s really high’.,….but they don’t know!!
What’s wrong with this picture I ask you??
I sat down and did the research and found out that our current CO2 level in our atmosphere is 385 parts per MILLION (385ppm) or around .004% TOTAL!!
Now, this begs the bigger question, HOW MUCH OF THAT IS MANMADE!!!!
Do the research yourself and WAKE UP!!!
The ‘Hide the decline’ video is correct, they’re all criminals!!
The Polar Bears aren’t drowning, the Ice caps aren’t melting, it’s all natural climate shift’s do to the sun’s effect on our planet….. WAKE UP!!
Carbon ‘Cap & Trade’ is what it’s all about. All the WALL STREET trading firms, yes, GOLDMEN SACHS, have set up ‘Carbon Trading’ desks, and yes, you guessed it, Dr. Global Warming himself, AL GORE, stands to make BILLIONS himself!!…WAKE UP!!!
I know all of you just loved $4.50 a gallon, did you know that about $1.00 of that was going to, yes, you guessed it, GOLDMEN SACHS. If this CARBON LEGISLATION is passed and becomes law, look out, and hang on the your wallets because that’s what it’s all about.
And, say goodbye to your beloved trucks, trailers, motorhomes, and all the toys that go with them!!
Cee=(
There are real enviromental issue to be delt with, make no mistake, but this is not one of them….
Scott Alexander
Wow! What a spirited influx of opinions! After reading all the posts, I feel as qualified as most of the responders to toss in my thoughts on this issue. My primary qualification is NOT being a scientist, so I’m apparently in good company here.
I’m with Sean in regards to being respectful and polite, whether I agree with him or not. Before I go any further, please forgive me if my natural sarcasm is taken as being disrespectful and rude, but it’s just part of my crusty personality. No offense is intended toward anyone, but I do like to poke fun at people, especially myself.
Frankly, most of us have had our minds made up long before “Climategate” happened. I don’t expect anyone (myself included) to honestly change their minds based upon recent events or on this esteemed collection of fervent opinions. At least Sean went out on a limb and raised the question. He seems to have an open mind on the issue, and has offered us an easy way to express ourselves.
Oh, yeah, where do I stand? I’m very PRO-environment, so that must mean I’m a hopelessly left-wing, bleeding heart, tree hunging, namby-pamby liberal who just won’t be “reasonable” (there, I beat everyone else to the name calling). Those of you with NRA cred can relax since I’m too old and too tired to “lock and load”. I personally support your Constitutional right to bear arms, but could you aim that Uzi in another direction? Maybe towards Bernie?
It’s good to know that others are disappointed by angry and reactionary responses to the thoughtful sharing of opinions. It’s sad when a different viewpoint triggers automatic negative and hostile responses.
Does this mean that I believe our government can solve this problem? I’m so jaundiced to our political system that I believe our best hope for true reform is a strong “grass roots” third party, but that’s beside the point. We are poisoning our world, and I support anything we can do to improve our planet, starting with how we respond as individuals. Maybe we can share ways to improve our RV carbon footprints?
Ron
Old riddle: How can you tell if a politician is lying?
.
.
.
.
.
.
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Answer: If his lips are moving.
Al Gore is a politician.
Meredith Meador
Good job Sean, I’m sitting here today, probably the coldest day of the year with a blizzard going on and they say there is global warming. The scientific community just wants more government, NO your money to keep this scam up. Global warming what a joke.
Scott S
Is the Earth cooling? Skeptics have pointed to research from Germany’s Professor Mojib Latif. This conclusion of cooling according to the professor is not correct – “we believe that a change in ocean current, especially in the tropical Pacific and in the southern oceans on the Southern Hemisphere, cooled the sea surface temperature, and this then led to an offset, you know, to global warming, and so the net effect is basically that there was no additional change. ” http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120668812
I agree with comments made above here by Grey Deacon. There are too many signs in our environment to ignore. We personally saw the devastation of trees especially in Colorado caused by beetles they were previously held in check by long cold winters. Years of drought and high temperatures across the West are leading to massive wildfires never before recorded.
Bob West
I am really sorry you are so sensitive. You started with an insult to the entire scientific community. You strongly suggest in your initial paragraphs that they have been scamming the human race by raising the issue of climate change or global warming whatever the label. You take your shots through inunedo. You suggest that we need a public discussion on whether or not the science of climate change that has been universally accepted has been a large scam. You could not have been more clear if you were talking about Bernie Madoff.
I am confused as to why this has become an issue that has become so political. The conservative Republicsns such as Palin, Limbaugh etc. want us to ignore climate change and the dems suggest it is real and needs to be addressed.
Finally, Sean you are correct that te internet is open to all who want to enter. I am not tolerant of your point of view because it is manipulative. I do retract my suggestion that you are a nitwit. That is not true. You are a skilled writer and manipulator. You can turn an argument from the substantive to the irrelevant very well. And there are obviously those who buy in so success is yours. Thankfully your point of view does not have the power now.
Sean Michael
Thanks to all who have posted thoughtful and respectful replies. I’d like to briefly respond to a couple of points.
How does this topic relate to RVing? The RV industry and RV ownership are directly affected by energy and environmental policies. Furthermore, most RV owners are passionate about the outdoors. We want to be good stewards of our environment. It thus makes sense to consider the most pressing environmental topics of the day. “Climategate” and global warming are front-page news – why pretend otherwise?
Instead of responding to differing opinions with hostility, intolerance, personal insults, and cries for censorship – why not approach these topics with open minds and good cheer? I was raised in a family that engaged in spirited discussions around the dinner table. All of my favorite college classes invited open dialogue. Wouldn’t the world be a dull place if we all held the same opinions? Diversity is the spice of life.
Finally, this is the Internet. No one is forced to engage in ANY discussion. If you don’t like a particular discussion, why choose to participate in it? Thanks again to everyone who has responded in a courteous manner.
Grey Deacon
I offered hands on science work to you folks (I was particularly interested in someone from the anti-science ranters to come with me next summer) there was zero interest. Most of the anti-environment group want to spew rehashed Rushisms or read the un-naturally low/high readings on their thermometers rather than come out in the field and challenge me with real live facts. People the fact that we have changed weather patterns is the proof of the weather/climate changes.
Come out in the field with me next summer and learn what is happening in the real world. Where I am out there we do not get much in the way of Foxnews so you will more than likely notice a reduction in what you believe to be natural thought. Don’t worry after two to three weeks your brain will kick in again and you will begin to function as a normal 5 year old.
Grey
Fred
People are like SHEEP, they follow anything …….. GLOBAL WARMING…… come on, give me a break. WAKE UP people, its all political hogwash. ANYTHING to get into the news and become known and famous. Ilive in Alberta, Canada. Every year we have winter, and some years seem colder than others. Last spring March and April we were constantly below normal temperatures.
Global Warming….. NOT a CHANCE.
The earth’s climates change, they have been changing warmer and colder for centuries and it always will, man cannot change that!!
Come on people, snap out of it, don’t be like sheep!!
Bob West
Thank you Fancis and Bob Brown. You said it better than I did. After this post and the resulting response from Sean Michael I read a great deal on this recent attack on the concept of climate change or global warming and watched a few TV reports. It seems some of the small group who wish to debunk the need to change our polluting ways hacked into these e-mails and took them out of context when they released them. Apparently these exchanges were between scientists and some of the debate was scientific in terms of what is proven and what are assumptions that need more explanation. The concept of climate and the impact of humans on this climate and our planet is very complicated. It can not be reduced to simple weather charts. Apparently it is quite clear however that the temps in our oceans are rising and that is an enormous concern. I suspect most of writing about this will not be here to experience the truth. That may be an excuse for some to just do nothing.
For awhile I felt guilty about my reaction and then I reread the original approach and it is truly a “hit and run”. I agree it has no place on an RV Forum other than I hope our mutual concern about the planet. These type of things are important to the poster if you make money by posting on the internet however so it is fair game to question the motives.
I do note that Sarah Palin has said the same thing as the original post so that pretty well decides it.
dave westerhof
A good read on the topic,looking forward to response’s.here’s the link……………………………….http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=422
Bob Brown
It’s pretty funny when somebody driving a monster rv claims to be an environmentalist! I like to joke that our rv helps us “maximize our carbon footprint”. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
As far as global warming goes, people have changed that term to “climate change” because it’s more broad and more “gray” as somebody pointed out. Taking the British data out of context is useful to some to debunk the whole process but there are hundreds and perhaps thousands of scientists working on this and for the most part they are objective folks (my sister is a scientist).
Most of us have specific examples which strike home that something is going on. Perhaps it’s the glaciers in Glacier Park that don’t exist? Or S. Californian’s watching the Imperial Valley dry up? Or sugar maples dying in the lower 48 states? It’s serious and we are responsible and have to do something about it.
John Jackman
I live just north of Lake Ontario and we know for a fact the less that 15,000 years ago this area was under a glacier . We can grow fruit in the summer . Climate change occurs as a natural event and we may have some impact but the amount is highly over exagerated in my opinion…
Francis X. Schilling
Re: “In other words, what is this stuff doing on rv.net?”
This is the second such article this poster has inflicted on the RV community. He posits a thinly-veiled conclusion posed as a “question” and begs ignorance of that fact when taken to task for it. While I have my own opinions on the subject, I have no desire to debate them with people who believe amateur radio operators have more of a handle on the sun’s behavior than the astronomers working at the McMath-Pierce Solar Observatory which I can see from my house. Sorry, I’ll take their opinions over some hack pontificating from his tenement-on-wheels any day.
You are disingenuous about your motives at best. Post this on your MySpace or Facebook page or do anything except pawn it off as RV-related.
PeteB
I do believe in climate changes: they happen 4 times a year and oh surprise! they do have a NAME: SPRING, SUMMER, AUTUMN AND WINTER. The rest is pure propaganda, some smart way to empty our pockets and finally the joke will be on us all.
Joespeh
Are you Bob Difley’s alter ego?
I’ll ask you the same thing I ask him when he spends an entire post on global warming: What in the world does this have to do with RV’s, RVing, or RVers?
In other words, what is this stuff doing on rv.net?
gmas
Sean… follow the paper trail… its all about the money and the elets’ getting theirs.
For years Ham radio ops have known about the suns emissions… gee go figure big ball of fire up in the sky… think things are going to get warmer when it grew 6 miles in dia a year for the last 7… why do solar cells put out more now than they did back years ago… go figure… skin cancer, sunburn… all examples of the furnace being turned up.. NOT MANMADE..
So when dope head got his NO-BELL prize… for creating a bunch of hot air… one can only imagine the next step.
Yep your going to start paying for the CO emission credits we all are going to need if we drive over so many miles… and use so much gas. But, when you pay at the pump for these creations … wonder this… throwing money at it will make it all right???
They had to look high and low for people that they could find in the sci field who would agree with ’em… and telll the sobbing stories of rising ocean levels… etc…
It goes to show how the hippy environmental nazi dopes that grew up and took over this country think… they can fool everyone.. yet no one…:D
And yes the numbers don’t lie… we cooled down since last year … without any reduction in CO… go figure…
You need to read the files that were hacked into .. which now the EPA says they destroyed after they did the analysis… and MOVED… ahhhh right… .. as Lily Tomlin used to say on TV…. AND THATS THE TRUTH.
Notice that after Bill it became OK to lie to the american public… because they never did anything to enforce it… Now …. hold on to your wallet… big brother is coming…
catchesthewind
Here is an immutable fact. Do politicians lie? Are their lips moving. Obama and his road crew will do and say anything to prove global warming for the purposwe of greater control of the populace. Indeed it is time to LOCK AND LOAD.
John
It is at least 10 degrees below normal here in KY. But the important thing is that I do not believe that global warming is real, never have never will, just hope when all you environmental Nazi’s realize it you still have 2 nickels left. In the mean time I will still be trying to pollute the world with my diesel pick up pulling my 5th wheel….I just hope I don’t camp next door to one of you to complain about my campfire!!!!!!………..Never new the American people were so easily brainwashed!!
OntheRoad
Sean, Your ‘Climategate’ blog is EXCELLENT. Sounds llike the lack of integrity isn’t only of Wall Street. Most Americans (except for a FEW greedy corporations) want clean air & water, but we don’t want to be mandated to bring mercury-containing florescent light bulbs into our homes because of junk science (LED lights seem like a better choice).
There are many solutions out there that don’t solve one problem by creating another with toxic mercury and car batteries,etc. Detroit manufacuteres own about 75% of green patents and is sitting on them… now is the time to investigate real solutions since we have the majority ownership of GM (i.e. a hydrogen engine’s byproduct is water).
It’s time to think outside all political party boxes and go for being self-sufficient (the technology is out already out there). If we build TRULY green products, Americans will come… and the government won’t even need to give us a rebate.
John Smith
On the Vikings and it being warmer then. Well, don’t you know it was what they ate that caused it but thank goodness that has passed. Excuse the pun!
Really I do agree that it is a normal cycle that the earth goes through and that this is not the first time nor will it be the last. Unless we get hit by a meteor!
Ken H
I live in Winnipeg, it is -21C, that’s 10 degrees below normal. I’d like someone to explain this “Warming”. It’s getting expensive leaving my vehicles running all night to create CO2!!! There is change happening but it is not a warm one…new ice age mayme.
Frozen in GWN
Chris C
The global warming crowd ALWAYS has to point out that a small glacier somewhere is melting–AND THEY SAW IT WITH THEIR OWN EYES! Look up the Wisconsin glacial period (10K years ago–not very long ago in earth time). That thing covered part of North America and was a mile high!! That was a GLACIER! Where is it today? It melted. Did man cause that? If not, what did? How many BTU’s would be absorbed by that giant ice sheet. Where did that warmth come from? Do some research on rocks, earths time periods, how long it took for continents to drift, mountains to form and vanish, seas to recede and how long man has been on the scene..
When I started college in 1980 there was an immanent threat of an ice age. Then we had a hole in the O-zone. Remember? This latest trend is more insidious with it’s end result being the carbon tax levied by our governments.
Gary
WE all do have opinions about this, that is for sure. I am no scientist but I can clearly see that taking care of our environment would be to our benefit. Just take a drive down a beautiful mountain highway. How much garbage is lying beside the highway. I watched a PBS presentation about Yellowstone National Park last night. I remember when people used to go to the park and actually throw things into the hot pots to see what would happen. They used picks to chip away the crust formations. We are still mucking it up whether we all want to admit it or not. If there is global warming or if there isn’t really does not matter. What matters is are we responsible with our exhaust, our garbage, our pollution and our ability to use up our resources because we are wasteful human beings with no accountability. It is 20 below zero here right now. Similiar to what it was 40 years ago when I moved here. It does not matter – recycle, pull a weed and dispose of it properly, don’t toss your butts on the ground, make sure that the beer cans in my front lawn are not yours – we can all make a big difference in this world if we can all just give a damn.
Ron
I need to comment Sean.
First of all John Coleman is a TV weatherman, not a climatologist. Before I retired from the Department of Earth Sciences, we called TV weather people, “weather guessers.” Right now in the upper Midwest they fore-casted this huge snow storm. At 1500 CST, we are still waiting for snow. Meanwhile I could have been on the road heading south this morning.
Yes, the earth has gone through cycles of hotter and colder temperatures than we have today. This is related to a theory first postulated by Milutin Milanković. From the WiKi article on Milankovitch cycles, “Milanković mathematically theorised that variations in eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of the Earth’s orbit determined climatic patterns on Earth.” This climatic pattern is related to the changing amount of solar radiation from these variations. (I took an undergrad glacial geology class in 1963 and wrote a research paper on the Milankovitch cycles at that time. This theory, and the continental drift theory, were way out in left field in the early 1960s. These theories only became accepted through later studies of sediments in deep sea cores.)
The question is, “What does the Milankovitch theory predict for the present day.” I think I’ve seen that we should be getting cooler, not warmer. Back in the mid-70s when core sample results were applied to the Milankovitch theory, we saw the now derided articles about the coming “Ice Age.” We’ve become warmer, in spite of what the theory tells us. (There is is a guy near here that has been attempting to ski to the North Pole. He tried twice and found too much open water. The last time they hauled a boat but there simply was too much water. Robert Peary gets credit by some to getting to the North Pole by sled in 1909. They had to cross jumbled up sea ice at leads but they didn’t have vast expanses of open water. The Arctic has been getting warmer since 1909.)
Is man-made pollution causing global warming? The jury is out on this but the majority, maybe a vast majority, of climatologists say so. It is disingenuous to say, as some do, that lots of scientists don’t believe in global warming when, if you look carefully, you’ll find that these people may be scientists, but are not climatologists.
Now some would say, “So what if it gets warmer? It was warmer when the Viking PR machine named Greenland 1000 years ago.” The problem is that there are 6 billion people on this planet today some who have access to very serious weapons. Bangladesh, an Islamic nation, is particularly susceptible to rising sea levels.
What should we do? I don’t know but saving energy should be a worthwhile goal, in and of itself.
Ranger Duke
Just returned from Matagorda bay where we had a rally and we really froze our tocas. Also, my brother called from El Paso last week and said they had 4-5″ of snow, the first time in a long time. I did however remind him that global warming does have it’s consequences. Well, got to go because I have to raise the thermostat and don’t believe all of those rumors there is really such a thing a global warming, just al gore. Ranger Duke
Ranger Duke
Just returned from Matagorda Bay and in spite of global warming we still froze our buns. My brother in El Paso called me last week and said they had 4-5 inches of snow which was the first time in a long time. I reminded him that global warming does have it’s consequences. Got to go and turn up the thermostat, THANK GOD FOR GLOBAL WARMING. Ranger Duke
Len_KC
The give-away in this scam is the word “consensus” Science is NOT a study of consensus; science is the study of absolutes. Science exists only where a set of conditions can be repeated, and the results are ALWAYS the same. Any thing less, like this debacle, is a sham!
Dennis
There are too many scientists who disagree with the idea that the cause of global warming is man’s pollution. Do I think we should do all we can to reduce our pollution, sure I do, but don’t sacrifice the world economy trying to do it. Besides if you believe anything that Al Gore says about global warming, then I guess you will believe anything you want to believe regardless of the facts presented. When did it become a crime to express an opinion which is opposite to the current administration or the main stream media. Nowadays, when you do this your are labeled a right wing extremists or even a terrorist.
Gordon Ford
Global warming was real, so was global cooling. We are again in a period of global cooling. Dangerous anthropogenic global warming was once a concern but now has become a fraud.
Norm Westbrook
Anyone who doesn’t believe that mankind has NO deleterious effect on our environment, and that products produced by mankind since the industrial revolution have NO impact on any “global warming” scenario is, I’m afraid, in dire need of a reality check.
It is a typical ploy of the anti-environment lobby to brand legitimate concerns as “scams”, “frauds”, well, you fill in the blanks…
dave westerhof
You can’t blame these scientists for sucking up to the fed’s mantra du jour. Scientists live off grants. Remember how Galileo recanted his preaching about the earth revolving around the sun? He, of course, was about to be barbecued by his leaders. Today’s scientists merely lose their cash flow. Threats work.Bottom line, it is now main stream knowledge that these scientists hid information contradicting their theory, fired those that challenged their theory, and went so far as to admit possible criminal action if a freedom of information request went through that they would delete data they had which contradicted their original hypothesis, resulting in the destruction of data acquired through the freedom of information.
Grey Deacon
1. I spent 30 years as a guide supporting scientific expeditions. Yes, the glaciers are receding. Yes, the snowpacks are disappearing, Yes, there are now fresh water lakes in the middle of the Arctic Ice Pack. Yes, there are huge insect infestations through out the north country that have been controlled by below zero weather in the past. Yes, these changes are affecting and effecting the biosphere — plants, animals, water and air.
2. I spent the summer in the Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho. Most of my time was spent working with water born insect populations in the tributaries of the Salmon river. The reason I was interested in the is I am a flyfisher and the size and number of salmonoids have deteriorated over the past 5 years and I wanted to know why. A) all of the tributaries have massive (hundreds of thousands of acres) timber die offs as a e direct result of Mountain Pine Beadle and simultaneous Spruce Moth infestations. B) all streams visited were packed with the needles of the dead and dieing trees. C) In prior years these infestations were killed out by hard freezing winters (-20 degrees) over two week or longer periods of multiple years (3 to 7). D) all streams visited suffered from lack of fresh water insect — some the 24 hour count was as low as 11 captured insects and a high of 250… these counts should be in the thousands for adults and fry to survive. My conclusion is the reduction in insects is a result of the change of PH in the water caused by the massive amounts of pine and spruce needles in the water and the fish starving.
These things I know. I would be happy to have anyone who chooses to join me next summer in further work towards establishing a baseline data to take to federal officials. The work is a little more difficult than typing opinions here — 3 to 15 mile walks with 3 to 5 hours in cold streams followed by 1 to 5 hours of work counting insects in the nets.
If you are not part of the solution you are the problem.
Grey
Christina Bullock
Sean, kudos to you for raising a valid question, and for sticking to the topic no matter what comments are made. People react passionately to such topics, which is understandable, but it’s nice to see folks having a rational, courteous discussion…or at least trying to. 🙂
Earl
GENTLEMEN:
IT’S TIME TO LOCK AND LOAD.
Bullitt Bill
Interesting discussion. It seems like some of you are way to the left. You are right, there should be intelligent discussions without name calling. We have to be contributing to climate change because we breathe. However, there is no good reason to throw our grandchildrens economic future away. I have always been an advocate of “follow the money”. Al Gore has made millions since he started hawking global warming. T. Boone Pickens advocated windmills, why, so he would have the right of way for his natural gas line. Now he and Nancy Pelosi are deeply invested in the California natural gas market. California is pushing to make natural gas usage mandatory. As for your scientists, most work under grant funding. If they don’t produce the “correct ” results they no longer receive funding. Being able to eat has a tendency to color your results at times. So, why don’t we, as a nation, back off a little bit, be a little more through in our investigation, and make some intelligent and thoughtful decisions.
JC
I find it difficult to fathom seemingly intelligent persons who can conjure up a conspiracy to explain anything that is not convenient to believe. Finding one renegade “expert” to support your position does not outweigh a huge, documented, peer-reviewed body of knowledge.
Bob West
You have bounced around so much it is hard to keep up. Glad you are coming back toward the middle. Ya, no need to be concerned. Earth is old, it won’t fall apart in the next 20 years (maybe) so let’s stopped worrying and have a beer. I do like the technique you use of name calling without doing it directly.but I am pleased that you have modified your original position.
Sean
Does anyone see irony in declaring “the debate is over” while simultaneously accusing others of being propagandists? Adults should be able to discuss issues rationally, and without petty name-calling. Although we are often presented with two extremes, the truth is usually in the middle. I’m sincerely interested in hearing different opinions, especially in light of “Climategate.”
As someone who once lived in the most polluted area of Eastern Europe (Slovakia’s Petrzalka community), I despise pollution. With regard to clean air & water, emissions laws and technology can rightfully be touted as wonderful successes.
I do grow skeptical when the media attempts to create an atmosphere of crisis and panic. We should advocate policies that protect our environment without resorting to fear-mongering, data distortion, and pseudo-science. In the end, junk science undermines environmentalism.
I try to approach these issues with an open mind. The earth is 4,540,000,000 years old. Forgive me if I don’t believe it’s all coming to a screeching halt in the next ten. It’s possible to be an advocate of environmental responsibility, clean water and air, recycling programs, and nature preserves without accepting global warming orthodoxy verbatim — especially in light of recent revelations.
Bri
Why is he resigning? I don’t know. I read a lot about all this and it is obvious that in hindsight, Jones and some other scientists at that organization used poor judgment at times. They talked about shredding data if the UK passes a freedom of information law. Since we don’t know the context it was written, we don’t know if it was said in jest. But it was said and that right there would be sufficient means for dismissal regardless if he was joking or not.
I’m sorry if you disagree but the debate about whether or not man is negatively affecting the environment is over. Yes the earth goes through heating and cooling periods but man is still influencing it. If it continues to follow the path it is taking currently, we could have some serious problems within a short period of time. Jones may be an idiot but he doesn’t represent the entire scientific community where there is a consensus on climate change.
Also they didn’t switch to calling it climate change because the Earth isn’t actually warming. It was a PR decision. Data still shows the Earth is warming at an alarming rate. Just because one year is colder than the previous doesn’t mean it is a trend. The infamous hockey stick from your video is talking about CO2 levels, not temperatures like the video would want you to believe.
I don’t see your point when bringing up smog. Yes there has been a reduction in smog thanks to emission standards and coal scrubbers. Just because there is less smog today than back in the 80’s doens’t mean we should get rid of emissions standards and scrubbers. It means they work. Or am I misunderstanding you and you are actually trying to say smog is natural and not manmade? If that is the case, I might as well give up this debate.
Bob West
Smog in some places is worse and others better. Mexico City is even worse. LA is marginal. I think Pittsburg is better. Oh yes I am old enough to remember. Every glacier I visited had receded dramatically according to the guides. They were probably just manipulating. Sorry Sean, I must be the nitwit to even engage in this discussion. You have taken a small bit and attempted to use it to discredit the entire concept of global warming and the need to be more environmentally responsible. That is manipulation. A good propagandist drives a small wedge, then raises questions producing doubt and then agitates and escalates. I don’t know if in the end they also claim to be exactly the opposite of the premise. There I complimented you.
Bri
Being able to take something out of context doesn’t undermine science. These e-mails and documents don’t show proof of fabricated data. It is simply sentences taken out of context. There is no global warming conspiracy. One smoking gun is a line where they mention removing an outlier from a graphical representation of a statistical set. The outlier is still in the data to be reviewed. It just isn’t represented graphically since it is obviously incorrect data. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Especially if you do what that did and admit in the documents that you are removing the outlier.
I once jokingly told my wife I bought a new diesel pusher. She said, “I’m going to kill you.” Of course she was smiling and joking too. But take that out of context and you would think my wife was a murderer planning to kill me.
A lot of this has to do with not understanding the scientific jargon. I work in IT. If I were to talk about my job to someone that doesn’t know the jargon, it could sound like I’m some sort of exorcist. I kill daemons(demons), I swak and smite. You would find 666 all over what I write. Who knows what you might find me writing in the comments of some code I’ve written. You could probably frame me for assassinating J.F.K. based on the comments alone.
You say environmentalists should be able to advocate green policies without lies and fear-mongering. I agree and in most cases they do. People on the other side need to try to do the same thing. A massive majority of scientists agree than humans are significantly influencing climate change/global warming. I’m not a scientist so for now, I have to trust what the vast majority of scientists say. It will take a lot more than some phrases taken out of context from a single organization for me to ignore what the consensus believes.
Bob Sims
Sean,
Bri probably can’t explain why some of those who wrote those emails have now resigned, and Bob W’s post is typical “attack anyone who opposes you”. What exactly has he “seen” with the glaciers in Alaska or “Antartic” (sic)? Is he old enough to remember the smog of the 60’s or 70’s? Is it better now?
Thanks for taking the time to post. Hopefully those who have been brainwashed by “scientists with an agenda” might someday listen to those who don’t.
Sean
Bob, it’s really impolite to insult others, whether in person or online. It’s also poor form to exhibit intolerance when confronted by a differing opinion.
So many people see the world in terms of black & white. Reality is often gray.
In any event, the article merely poses a question — it states no opinion, other than my advocacy of clean water and air.
How is favoring clean water and air “selling out to polluters?” The point is that environmentalists should be able to advocate green policies without lies and fear-mongering. A clean environment is itself a worthy goal.
Sean
Bri, Mark Twain taught us that “there are lies, damn lies…and statistics.”
But if it’s true you can “take something out of context to prove anything you want,” then we’re all in trouble. 😉
Bob West
I think you are a nitwit. To seize on this side of the story which is only a small part is ridiculous. Have you seen the glaciers in Alaska? Are you aware of what is happenning in the Antartic and Artic? Have you noticed the smog? No matter what you call it we are polluting this earth and if we don’t stop the consequences are dire for our successors. I am really shocked that you would write this. I have read your stuff and this dosesn’t seem like you. Why sell out to the polluters?
Bri
Please actually read the wiki article you link to. Most of what is being cited are single sentences taken out of context. It doesn’t show a conspiracy. All it shows is if you have enough e-mails and pieces of source code from someone, you can eventually find something to take out of context to ‘prove’ anything you want.