Our old Foretravel is equipped with a Sharp Carrousel combination micro wave and convection oven. That means that all cooking done in that oven is electric. As those that have read our past notes know we installed a small solar system and a big bank of batteries complete with a 3,000 watt inverter before leaving home for our winter trip. RV Solar in Phoenix Arizona supplied the system that included 170 watts of solar panels, a Magnum 3000 charger/inverter/converter and the control panels needed to operate the system. The battery bank came out of our golf cart that was not making the trip with us.
Between October 19th, departure date from New Hampshire, and the 9th of January we logged just 2.5 hours of generator time with half of the nights spent in camp grounds and the other half spent boondocking. That adds to roughly 60 days living off batteries and solar, and we are not energy efficient people. We run the TV, satellite, two lap tops, lights, coffee pot, lights, water pump, and microwave as needed to maintain a comfortable life style.
With the old system we would have run the generator at least 2 hours a day during morning coffee time and evening meal preparation. If the night time temperatures were forecast to be low enough to run the furnaces we would probably have run the generator at least another hour to make sure that the batteries had enough power for the night. That would have been between 120 and 180 hours of generator time at $2.50 per hour.
But there is good news and bad news. Well maybe not bad news but some of what the nay sayers of solar spout is partially true. One old racer that we met Christmas day at a campground was quite adamant that solar was the worst investment that he ever made. His mantra was that you still have to recharge the batteries. Quite true, but it is like ,”do I recharge entirely with the generator, or do I let old sol up in the sky help.” The operative word is help. With enough panels you could depend completely on solar depending on your location. The southern states in the winter offer more direct solar and longer and more sunny days.
The one thing that is obvious here in the Arizona desert is that elevating the panel to get direct sun rays does help. Our panels are flat on the roof and before next winters trip I will rig a platform on the roof that will let me point the panels into the sun. From observation keeping them flat limits the output to about 50% of rated capacity. Which means that if I am happy with the performance now, just think of the results elevated.
Solar is not a cure all but half a loaf is better than non at all. And while being not being energy conscious to the point of being cold because of a low thermostat setting in rural New Hampshire, we have reduced our carbon foot print on the planet and are warm in Arizona, and with solar providing half or more of our electrical needs we feel good.
Oh, the woman assaulted by chocolate chips? Well Lucy was baking her famous chocolate chip chocolate muffins as a gift for our neighbors that helped with our billowing awning in the wind storm yesterday. As she was removing the muffins from the solar electric powered oven a hot chocolate chip fell off a muffin. It landed on the toe of her Crock, slithered down through one of the holes and burned her big toe to the point of a blister. What does this have to do with solar? Nothing, but it got your attention.
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Lucy Wells, the Geezer Whisperer
Thanks for asking, guys … yeah … my toe is healing, now some 2-plus weeks later to a non-blistered brownish circle (as in not yet flesh-toned) of dead skin, without fluid detained.
Fuzzily (labor excluded at about $73.15 per hour):
1) I had applied immediately a cold-water soaked non-antiseptic paper towel (generic Wal-Mart brand): 14¢;
2) Then, multi-tasked (on one foot) the job of closing the convection oven’s door (being energy mindful), cleaning up the mess on the floor (paper towels and loss of 2 muffins): $42.50; preventing further injury to any of my parts, separating out my gift muffins from any that had been compromised, placing some muffins to cool and others back in the oven, keeping the chocolate-loving cat at bay, emitting pain-filled moans, carefully removing remaining muffins from oven, and keeping the Geezer also at bay as there is never enough room for 2 during critical RV close-quarters emergency kitchen response initiatives.
3) Crisis contained, I removed myself to the bathroom, dropped my holy Crocs into the shower base, carefully washed my foot, removing annoyingly wasted chocolate with washcloth, soap and water (32¢ in chocolate; $4.25 later in added laundry costs);
4) Retreated to couch;
5) Assigned Geezer the task of finding the Aloe-Vera lotion in the medicine cabinet, and here’s the pleasant surprise: he actually found it right away (minus $2,073.00 in post-crisis marital counseling);
6) The heat generated by this small wound supplemented our passive solar gain then coming through the window above the couch temporarily until the application of aloe (57¢) began to work;
7) Walking awkwardly again to the bathroom, I located an almost antiseptic (non-soiled and still packaged) archival gauze pad from the Dr. Ed Wells med stuff inheritance but also generally available and fresher over-the-counter: (5¢ savings but $3.76 when we replace);
8) Placing the gauze lightly over the aloe-covered burn blister to prevent desert dust accumulation, I reviewed oft-told tales of diabetics who’d lost their toe / foot / leg after ignoring festering mishaps (6.3 hours off my life-expectancy in worry alone = untold loss in time with my grandchildren);
9) Foot up, resting, restoring my own energy bank with a good book and a low-sugar therapeutic chocolate chip muffin, in the company of the cat and a Geezer who was relieved I hadn’t yelled at him for my own clumsiness: (savings of $17,689 in emergency medical and psychiatric care).
As I have recycled the scrap paper upon which I recorded these costs I researched (in my leisure), my account may be a bit fuzzy still. My point is, even though none of you asked, my toe is gonna be OK, I think. And, no, I am not ready to give you my muffin recipe.
And, while I’m up … when are you techs gonna start using new mechanical terms for the passive ‘female’ and quick-acting ‘male’ parts (was that you, Fred?).
Lucy, the Geezer-tolerant Hedgehog
Himself
I have basically the same set up. I have not yet added an inverter. My system is flat on the roof. I realize that we probably would get better output of the panels if I were to tilt them, but I don’t care to climb on the roof of the RV. Also I was talking to a fellow that had the tilt bars on his rig and had a panel get blown off the roof (or so he claimed) I plan to add another panel and an inverter.
I got my system from AM Solar in Springfield OR.
mr_whit
GREAT POST-WHIT
Fred
A. Walker and John Christman,
I’m glad you pointed out some of Brad’s fuzzy math calculations. But hey, they don’t pay these RV.net bloggers the same as a math professor.
Anyway, here is my setup:
Six 12 volt 75 AH Optima AGM deep cycle batteries. $1200
Four 125 watt, 7.5 amp Kyocera solar panels. $2200
Two 20 amp Morningstar solar regulators. $120
One voltmeter. $60
Three 50 Amp display ammeters. $75
One Trimetric TM-2020 AH monitor. $160
One 500 amp shunt to pair with the TM-2020. $30
One 2000W AIMS true sine-wave inverter. $600
Aluminum framing from Home Depot. $50
Lots of different lengths and gages of wire. $100
One DIY handyman. $1.98
I have two panels up on the roof, frame-mounted to a large kitchen corner-cabinet carousel kit and pivoted to be flat or up to 60 degrees from level.
Right now that assembly is manual and I must climb the ladder three times to make the panels aim towards the sun. Aim east in the morning, aim south at mid-day, aim west in the afternoon. Tilting is done at the same time as the aiming, but with the different seasons of the year as a factor. In the summer I don’t even bother – just leave the panels flat. All that climbing really is only needed if you are camped up north in the winter time.
My next project is to devise a post and pin mechanism up through the roof to manipulate the solar frame without going outside and climbing the ladder.
Because I knew that always getting enough sun when parked under trees is a dilemma, I chose to set up my other two panels on the ground with 50 feet of proper sized wires. Two female quick connectors are fixed to the camper and protected from the elements. The male connectors from the panel wiring simply plug in to make it easy for me. I can aim and tilt the ground panels manually with ease.
I transport the two ground panels inside of a cushioned waterproof canvas bag I made to fit their size. That is mounted with a home-made frame of aluminum which is bolted to the bumper and ladder simultaneously. The panels and the frame are removable from the ladder using quick-disconnect pins so I can get to the ladder quickly.
I adjust my AH usage drastically from what I use in an electric hookup campsite, but hey, when you’re out in the bush, the TV doesn‘t have to be on but for about 5 hours in the evening. We run mostly 12 volt items such as the lights, and the furnace when cold enough. With the inverter on, we use two 90 watt laptops for 3 or 4 hours when not watching TV. I’m writing this comment from a secret desert spot of mine in Arizona and it is about 10 o’clock at night.
My AH usage in the evening and into the sleeping hours varies from 10 amps per hour to 20 amps per hour depending on the temperature. My daytime usage is way lower than that because in daylight you don’t need lights and we are usually outside enjoying nature. There is more usage per 24 hours in the winter because it is dark longer. By the way, sometimes we just read in the evenings.
So far, the amount of solar recharge into the batteries is more in one 6 hour winter day than was discharged during the night, so we start from zero AH used each evening. All this nearly doubles in the summer since it is daylight twice as long as it is in the winter.
The cost of all this stuff sucks. It is based on 1970s technologies and that cost hasn’t gone down one bit since I bought my first solar stuff back then, allowing for inflation. A major shift in public attitudes and demand, and a shifting of government “funds” from war crap to green crap would really be a big help to those of us that want power independence, but can’t always pay for the over-priced equipment.
Anyway, I shelled out that money for my need to be independent. The payback is probably longer than I’ll live, but I’m 70, so I don’t care now.
john Christman
Brad,
It is certainly obvious from what you are saying in this article (specifically your math) that if anyone believes what you are saying–they should run right out and buy the exact same solar setup that you have and will be happy as a clam the rest of their lives. Of course, the article that you wrote on November 20, 2008 and the one you have written on January 12, 2009 don’t come close to agreeing with one another as far as the numbers are concerned.
I sure don’t understand how it costs $2.50 to run your generator for one hour just to recharge your batteries? Don’t know where you buy diesel fuel at, but I’ve been paying $2.15/gallon for over a month now and I would have to turn on every electrical appliance in my `02 Foretravel with a 10KW generator and still wouldn’t use but about 3/4 gallon of fuel per hour.
Of course your math and explanation in the November article was a tad off kilter, so I’m not sure who you are trying to bluff–but if 170 or 340 watts of solar can do all the things you claim, I’m sure the rest of us would like to know how? But then you didn’t say how many MINUTES you run the Microwave, TV, Coffee Maker, lights, etc. before you start the engine or generator to bring your batteries back up. Perhaps if the real truth were told, your story wouldn’t hold water. Please folks, hold Brad accountable for his statements before you go out and spend a few $1,000’s — cause there are a few facts that he hasn’t disclosed — or just go see if the numbers he quoted in his article in January are the same as his article in November!
A. Walker
Brad, If I were to put solar panels on my MH’s roof as you did, I wouldn’t want to have to climb up there via the rear ladder to manually adjust the panels whenever I stopped. What alternatives are you considering, or are available for consideration to avoid the climb up – and walking on – the roof to adjust the panels from lying flat to angling toward either the street or curb side? Thanks for all the good observations so far!
Ray Ruff
This is the best article you have written since I have been reading your Blog. I had been reading and anticipating the results of the solar install and find it very interesting. The assault story is hilarious and I can see it happen in my imagination LOL Happy Camping Ray Ruff Up North.