By Bob Difley
Suggestions are circulating around congress during these times when state and federal governments are finding it difficult to meet expenses that government should sell off “excess” government property to raise the necessary funding to continue to operate. Some of this excess property has been identified as public lands–national forests, wilderness areas, and desert lands now owned by us, the citizens of this country.
Others consider this approach as short-sighted, citing the fact that once they are sold off they will never again become public lands available for our recreational use. The sales of these properties would also result in job and revenue losses in the surrounding communities, as many tour operators, rafting companies, fishing supply stores, fishing equipment manufacturers, camping supply stores and manufacturers, hunting supply stores, and other outfitters would have to shut down and lay off employees.
And, of course, it would also mean diminished land for use by RVers for camping, boondocking, and sightseeing, and shut down the revenue flow we RVers spend in local communities for supplies, restaurants, and other services. This fact has been clearly demonstrated when various states started closing down state parks and the surrounding communities took and big economic hit because the visitors to the area suddenly vanished.
RVers, hunters, and anglers would be especially affected, as in some cases they have already been by the implementation of the new Travel Management Plan just now going into effect on Forest Service lands and soon to be adopted on BLM lands that curtail use of some roads and elimination of some dispersed camping areas that have been used in the past.
Should our public lands–lands effectively owned by us–be sold off to satisfy current and temporary revenue flow problems? Aren’t there better, more innovative ways to resolve these current problems than to take away our recreational lands, monuments, and parks, like utilizing more volunteer help in keeping public lands open, assistance by local communities that stand to suffer, and land users pitching in to help until the economy gets sorted out. What do you think?
Check out my website for RVing tips and destinations and for my ebooks, BOONDOCKING: Finding the Perfect Campsite on America’s Public Lands (or for Kindle version), Snowbird Guide to Boondocking in the Southwestern Deserts (Kindle version), and 111 Ways to Get the Biggest Bang out of your RV Lifestyle Dollar (Kindle version).
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Ed
At times like this why does the government of the USA still give away the minerals found in our lands? foreign companies or our own for profit companies take oil copper gold and anything else it finds and pay little, if resources are on private lands, or nothing if the lands are public. They say they are providing jobs and they destroy scenic areas then they let these companies dump tailings on more public lands to further destroy the area then when they are done these companies walk away or declare bankruptcy and our government has more expense cleaning up with no profit to our government just expenses. Stop waste, stop giveaways but if they sell off our public lands they will be gone forever, and we will still have the expenses to clean our environment after the abuse.
Dennis L. Lee
I grew up with a father who was a forest ranger before I was born and always had a close releationship with foresters and those who cared for the forest lands. I have always felt that the forests are for our decendents. I Object to the sale of any national park or state park property for any reason.
Thanks for the opportunity to respond.
lmatch
James, if I, as a taxpayer, own this land as you say, then explain how it is I can get cited for felony trespassing now for going onto my own land? That is my point, you have to face up to the reality that “public land” is no longer public land– it is privately owned, managed (mismanaged), and restricted by an incompetent landlord, and is NOT available to us despite what you might think or what might have been the case in the past. Perhaps you have not been following recent changes that restrict ALL access to public lands?
James Cromer
NO, It should not be sold off. We the taxpayer own those lands. We paid for them
with the sweat of the brow. Our future generations should be allowed to enjoy them as God wanted them to be used. NOT for someone to tear them up a nd destroy what little bit of nature we have left.
DENNY WAGAMAN Wagaman
The governerment cannot manage much of anything and make it work. There is a lot of land that can be sold including property with improvements. Old buildings that are more costly to maintain, too large for their original intende use like post offices buildings in many cities. Forests land that the majority of people cannot get into or is closed off to the public should also be seriously considered.
lmatch
Besides the shockingly ignorant posters (who either believe we are not in a financial mess, or blame our mess on a previous administrations or “rich people), I find this post and the responses facinating. The assumptions people seem to be making (I think erroneously) is that:
1.Public land = good, available to everyone, well protected
2.Private land = bad, cut off from everyone, destroyed
I spend all available time recreating in the outdoors, and were I live in Oregon, the vast majority of the land is owned by the federal government. Unless we want to hike (which my knees won’t let me do anymore) it is mostly now cut off from public access. I now spend a lot of my time on privately owned land that is better managed, much less likely to burn down in a massive forest fire due to poor accessibility and fuel management, and i don’t have to worry about getting a felony for “trespassing on public land” (give that comment some thought).
I am of the opinion, through careful thought and real world personal experience, that we have no public land left– it is simply owned by the ultimate large out-of-control corporation called “the U.S. Federal Government”, and they are NOT managing it well NOR making it available to the citizens of this country.
So the choice is not should we sell public land and make it private, it is should we sell private land from an incompetent, inefficient, tax consuming, “no trespassing” owner to a new owner who will put it back on the tax-paying roles and promise, possibly through teeth in the sales contract, to make it available to the public once again.
BTW, there are already numerous restrictions on private land that preclude strip mining and all these other atrocities these scare-tactic posters envision happening if the Federal Government is no longer the private owner. Rubbish.
Bernie M
We should NOT sell any of our precious federal land! Best way to start getting control back from the Washington spenders is to “Re-Elect NO ONE”!!!!! Seriously, we need to stop re-electing the same spenders…. they can agree on all kinds of “social” issues, but not money…. that’s where we need to STOP spending it all. When they can bring in a balanced budget, we can re-elect again…. meanwhile, re-elect no one….
Charles
Remember who authorized the printing of TRILLIONS of dollars to help corporate America? Don’t let the public lands be sold to anyone. We, the Public, need this land to unwind on when the need arises.
gary sheldon
Does anyone recall an exec. order by Reagan that would ban anyone from access to national forests in a national , or other, declared emergency? It includes an order to shoot on sight if I recall. Is there a limitation on exec. orders or are thaey “eternal”?
gary sheldon
America finds herself in this predicament because those we sent to speak and do our business have failed and done what benefitted them rather than this Republic. They are desperately trying to control ALL aspects of our lives even to the point replacing Diety with government as in communist countries. They must decrease gumMINT size way before they consider selling out the people any further which is what selling our forests etc. really does. There are no less than 16 levels of government enforcement on “federal” lands and why is that? These entities duplicte “services” and may be a waste of our dollars. There are many departments that should be eliminated. EPA is one since each ste has there own EPA. Education is another and Energy is another crony dept. wit nothing to show for itself since invented by Carter. The EPA was a Nixon brainstorm if I recall. The forest managers are already planning ways to limit boondocking on our “property”. The proverbial frog (you and me) in the pot has now become aware of just how high the heat has been turned up on the pot and now we are awake to what has been going on. Thank God for this awakening brought forth by the electon of the soon to be deposed child king. WE got what we deserved; now I pray we get what we need, conservatives to take the reins and set a new direction which will be more like the founders had intended and, God willing, with a MORAL compass to boot.
Harold Steffee (gene327)
Selling off public lands would be about the same as selling your birthright of citizenship. I think we all know that congress would see them go to cronies and they would be gone in a few years to developers. Once gone it would be forever and then to use any of the land you would have to pay and more than likely pay a toll to use the interstates. The greed of the members of congress is well known and they will use any excuse to line their pockets. The average Congressman is worth about a quarter of a million dollars when taking office and by the time he has been there for 6 yrs he is worth millions, now I ask you how do they do that on a salary of about 160,000 a year.
Barry Zander
This is not to say I favor the selling the lands — I don’t want that to happen, and I believe it is a short-sighted plan, a drop in the bucket for solving our economic woes. But, I want to give another view. Private companies manage lands for the companies’ objective, which is primarily to meet market demand. When timber and paper companies harvest trees to provide the materials we use in our everyday life, including construction of homes and businesses, they plant seedlings. And they manage their interests for future generations. When you see vast swaths of land with downed trees, it is usually in national parks and wilderness areas where forest management is secondary to leaving things natural. I’m with everyone else — don’t deprive us of public lands — but give some respect to the companies that employ us.
Geoffrey Pruett
Improving public lands sounds good but you do not understand the system. The so called “party” system has been on life support for years and the people paying to keep it going want a return on investment. We elected them, we should be able to remove them if enough candidates able to survive our paid off press systems inquisition can be found. Think of it this way, would you put your family thru what our elected officials are supposed to smile and take daily? The quality of our elected officials has not gone down hill any more than the general population but when I started voting in the 50″s unless it was contagious private problems were private. Now we have “clean” politics, yeah right, and stale mate. Maybe our parents did know something.
JJLJR
Our population continues to grow. More people are using the public lands. RVing and camping is growing. We need to keep and enhance access to our public lands – not sell off the lands. And if by chance we do sell any of the land, it should be restricted to US Domiciled entites and any products of mining, lumbering, etc. should be retained in this country and not exported.
Net, net – find the money to improve our public lands for our people and not sell it off to others.
Pat
NO, NO, NO…just a ploy to give OUR land (actually it wasn’t ever ours, we stole it from the native peoples) to the 1% ers to exploit, rape or in some otyher way ruin it, or worse, selfishly keep it for themselves.
And remember, the problem with Washington is US! We continue to elect people who we think represent us, but in fact represent big $, power, and greed! Our two party system is actually just one party with extremists on each end who set the agenda. Change that and we will get some real change!
Geoffrey Pruett
Just a thought for the day, Russia is supposed to have a “pretend” democracy but the ballots have something we really need at this time. Each elected position has a box labelled “None of the Above”. With this at our beck and call how many seats would remain empty in congress.
Geoffrey Pruett
Selling public lands is a bad idea in all but a few cases. Leasing lands could be a usefull thing provided this is done Mall style with the landlord recieving a percentage of the profits from the usage. Letting go of our grandchildrens legacy under current pressures is certain to be a disaster. Recieving lease fees could at least hold the line until decisions are less rushed. We have all witnessed both well run and poorly run recreation areas and they are spread pretty evenly among private and public managers. To “assume” that lands being managed privately will be damaged is a political view, not something which has been researched enough to call truth. In Oregon’s forest lands the poorest management has been Federal due to all the pressures from largely pointless lawsuits. Most of Congress are lawyers who seem bent on creating retirement jobs for themselves. Now is a poor time to be selling off any public asset.
Mark
This is the worst Idea I’ve heard of in a long time!
Number 1 point here it is not theirs to sell! It belongs to the American people.
Besides all the good points others have made here there is so much waste in government and wrong thinking that the problem could be fixed in a short time. I know! That is a bold statement but let’s hit a few of the “button pushers” in the news lately. We have all heard how the rich will still not be expected to pay their fair share. The own an increasing percentage of the wealth in this country. There is only one reason for this and it’s obvious. That perk was bought and paid for. The folks would not suffer at all for the tax they pay. NONE! Unless you think that they suffer somehow losing the tick on the list of the richest. Poor them!. Not even that. if they all paid they all would lost the same tick.How about the sending of BILLIONS to any number of foreign countries? We don’ t need to buy their good will! They take our money with one hand and burn our flag with the other. Preposterous! How about corporate welfare for example oil companies? Why are we giving money to an industry posting record profits year after year? Don’t start with the crude prices. If they passed on the extra cost that would one thing but it’s obviously not the case. The list goes on and on.
Illegals: The only rights an illegal should have is to be treated humanely
while being sent back.
Medical care: The ridiculous cost of this in the US should be addressed BEFORE trying to find a way to pay for it!!
This post could become and book and not reach and end.
All this is evidently not so common sense and has has no chance of being done because of the golden rule. Those that have the gold you make the rules.
I seriously worry for America. The juggernaut that is our government is out of control. It displays daily that the citizens they took and oath to represent are last on the list.
Tom S
This argument is based in what your state circumstances are. I live in Nevada where the guvmint owns 93% of the land.There are many parcels of government owned land left here in the Las Vegas Valley. Why are they holding on to it? There are vast areas of Nevada, besides the Nevada Test Site, Area 51 and The Nellis AFB range that are closed for the only reason is the government CAN close it.
Not all parcels of land in the US held by Uncle Sam are pristine wilderness areas.
I say yes, sell some of the areas, protecting the land that should remain in the public trust. (The operative word in that last sentence is “some’)
Henn
NO to selling public land. The only option to fix $ shortfall for our units of govenment is for them (meaning us) to live within our means
hoppe
LEAVE OUR PUBLIC LANDS INTACT.
We wouldn’t have a ‘cash flow’ problem IF;
We had cared about our debt when Bushy and Cheney were running not one, but Two wars ‘off budget’.
Or if we cut out some of the Tax Breaks for the Rich Bitch.
Or if we did away with the loophole that let’s Corporations do buis. here while running their profits through countries that don’t have a Corporate tax at all.
Maybe re-instate import duties on ‘manufactured’ goods being imported. Like China does.
or Charge Export Duties on Raw Materials leaving the USA? Like China does.
or Giving any Corporation or Company Any tax advantages that uses Foreign Countries for Tech Support, or Manufacturing?
Keep in Mind that Wisconsin did NOT have a cash flow problem until Gov Walker called a special session of their Legislature to give tax breaks to his buddies. Suddenly there is/was a HUGE problem. I’m saying the Problem was Walker!
samg
Sell off public land? Most national parks are no longer run by our government. Okay, there’s a debate as to whether the United Nations owns our National Parks. “They oversee the environmental concerns”. They’ve got their foot in the door? How about the Chinese buying our public lands? Ever notice the large groups of orientals when you travel? How much of Hawaii do they own? What if they restricted visit to Asians only? Not possible? Congress would prevent this? Money problems? Lobbyists contributing money can sway Congress’ voting. Congress has isolated themselves from the reality of the majority. If they want to visit public lands they’ll get permission to have their limo driver tour them. Trust our Congress. NO to sell it all! By the way- Walmart still allows campers on their lots.
Don Bittle
I am familiar with one small project in my area that I have wondered about for years.
We have a 20,000 acre wildlife refuge that has been given over to deer and geese largely. No public admittance for the most part. Yet it is surrounded by highways with towns butting right up to the refuge. Why not sell off the first 200′ along the hwy. right of way? Move the fences back a bit and sell home and business lots. Wouldn’t make any difference to the deer, except for having a buffer zone that would somewhat protect them from cars.
This refuge along with another 300,000 National Forest acres takes millions of dollars off the tax rolls.
Montana Mike
I have mixed feeling about this. My family does almost all of its recreating on public land. Unfortunately, the panthiests who dominate the administration of our lands are making it more and more difficult to access and use our land. The majority of the places we have camped and even bicycled are inaccessable to the public anymore. Constantly, more and more land is cut off from public access and granted exclusively to the use of the plants and animals these people worship.
My feeling is that when we lose the use of the land, we might as well sell it to someone who will use it.
richard7072
In a nutshell, no way should any of it be sold off!!
Phyl
Public lands belong to us, the public…the people of the US. Unfortunately, our government officials are so greedy, they overspend & they have lobbyists who pay them in return for “favors”…like land grabs. Our public lands! These lands don’t cost us anything, but they are needed for wilderness & wildlife. They give our environment a boost. Logging, mining, oil, gas, etc will kill these areas & our wildlife, too. Oust all our greedy uncaring government officials.
KENNETH LANE
The jake the fake budget woes are another invention of the Republicans—it will mysteriously go away after the next Presidential elections pass. As anyone with a mind knows we had no problem while waging two wars on the cuff but now the sky is falling———–NOT!
As to selling off public lands——–another Republican invention that’s wrong headed at best————sure grabs the headlines on FOX fake News and makes Rush cream his jeans on the radio.
Dennis
Guess what people the government has been doing this for years
mark gordon
The Goverment should not sell public land with out asking the the people first. I went to a meeting in Siskiyou County where 7 Northern Calif. county Sheriffs said that they wouldn’t enforce the TMP plan. For safety reasons they needed those roads.
Grampa Jim
I don’t even like the thought of such an outrage, but Washington has gotten so big for their pants that I don’t think anything we say as citizens will help. I hope we don’t have violence against our government, but I wouldn’t be surprised either. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Monroe, etc are rolling over in their graves saying,,,,”This isn’t what we had in mind, guys,,,,,let’s get back on track and get out of bed with the big corporations and others that selfishly control our nation.”
Ron Butler
Oh yes, sell off the public lands for a one time cash flow impact. That will really solve the financial problem!!
The foresight of people from the past that saw the value of these national treasures were all afraid of private explotation of them. For one, just think of Teddy Roosevelt. They would be/are rolling in their graves with this suggestion.
My, my, my, there are numerous examples of private devistation of the resources and land for profit. Lets see, coal mines of the Allegehnies (sp?), strip mining in the western states (copper, etc.), cutting down of old growth forests from one coast to the other and oh, what happened in the gulf several years ago? I know that drives the “free market choice” brethren crazy, but what has changed in the corporate mentality if they were let loose on what they have been wanting to get at since these lands have been set aside and preserved for us and our future generations.
I think it was my father that said of some economic choices – “penny wise and pound foolish” and this one really applies to that!
Larry McKinnon
Let’s see, sell them off, and pay to build a railroad in California that isn’t needed and increase entitlements to everyone including our elected officials, or leave it alone. The government does need the money, to continue doing what it has been doing for many years, spending it on foolish programs that when thought out, don’t make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Like green energy. Rather then sell off federal lands, let’s cut half the federal and state departments and see how much money we have can save. Look at the department of Energy, they haven’t done anything and they have what, 20,000 people working for them. What a joke and a total waste of money. Department of Education, another joke, the EPA is right up with all of them.
Sell the lands because GE is moving it’s operations to China, and they do not pay any taxes. And they want to sell the land that actually doesn’t belong to them, it belongs to the people. Leave my land alone, America is not for sale. Just stop your stupid out of control spending.
SteveG
I with Guru Bob AMERICA IS NOT FOR SALE! The land wil lbe gone and the money along with it.
Glen Jones
Leave our public lands alone, the only ones that would benefit from there sale are the meg-rich and our corrupt government officials of course our government officials do not listen to the regular people in this county so they will probablt sell public land no matter what. If you are a true Rver the sale of public lands would leave you no place to go, if you fish or hunt it would also leave you no place unless you can pay several thousand dollars a year to hunt on private property canned hunts.
Donna
I am not sure this would be the solution. I would agree if that would help; but until we remove ones that have gotten us in this situation, I simply don’t trust thier thought up solution. Once this happens we don’t get it back; it’s gone! The situation has not happened overnight; it’s been coming for quite some time, and the ones that have gotten us here are still in office. How can we honestly think they are making the right decisions. I mean really!!! I wish they all could be removed, every last one and only get to serve a certain amount of time. I don’t trust they have the hard working american people best interest at heart. They take the easy way and not actually do what is right. I only hope that by the time my husband and I retire there is something left to see and our investments can be saved to make this dream possible.
Don
A few questions that come to mind. 1. Who would be buying these lands? The government is already selling lands to the Chinese. 2. What happens when we run out of “EXCESS” land to sell. We need to pare down internally, utilize those lands to enhance the American experience rather than trim down areas that we can camp, hunt, or fish.
essbee
DianeW, you say “Private companies most always exploit the land and the visitors they might allow” – please give just one example of this. You over-react and you paint with a huge brush, and I suspect you don’t have an example. Government consistantly mismanages and spends our tax money in inefficient and lavish ways.
Keith
I think there is something the governments don’t understand and that is that selling off pubic is only a band-aid solution and this would not address the problem of over spending. Sooner or later every one is going to have to bite the bullet and quit living beyond there means.
Allison H
Truthfully, I believe any new money we hand over to our spending-addicted governments, whether federal or state, will only be flushed down the same loo that previous trillions of tax dollars have swirled down.
Selling off assets will probably be called for at some point, but FIRST – show us that government agencies have learned to live within their budgets. Then, and only then should new sources of revenue to pay down debt be explored.
And also, the fed owns billions of dollars of property that is in no way scenic or publically utilized- you’d be shocked to learn what your tax dollars have purchased. These threats to sell off Yellowstone and Yosemite are specious, to say the least and are trotted out to scare Grandma- an old and useful political trick..
DianeW
Let private enterprise take over some land????? That is crazy!! Private companies most always exploit the land and the visitors they might allow. Or they just probably will strip it of anything valuable and walk away leaving a barren landscape behind. I do not trust private enterprise to do the right thing when they continuously prove they worship at the altar of the almighty $$$$$.
butterbean carpenter
Howdy Guru Bob,
As usual you are correct in saying that the people we elected to higher office have
given us, the public, the sh.ty end of the stick, BUT THEY WON’T CUT THEIR
ENTITLEMENTS (LIFETIME PRIVILEGES AFTER 4 YEARS IN OFFICE) !!! THEY SURE AS H-LL WILL CUT THE VETERANS PROMISED BENEFITS!!! Who pays back to the treasury ALL OF THE MONEY the crooks take from Medicare and other
Government programs, hah??? The politicians sure won’t investigate or try to get it back!!!
H_ll no don’t sell any more of OUR LAND !!!!
Gary
Just a Great Big NO !!! The government has removed too many historic areas such as in my area, North Central Washington , a 3000 + year old , registered historic Indian trail has been closed to through traffic and is posted. In Montana, huge plots of land have been purchased and closed by the buyer. NO !! Do not let this happen. It’s bad enough that the land our parents, grandparents etc. have payed for, can even be thought of as “for sale”.. If it is to be sold , put the money in our pockets, not the government who will sqander it in a “pet project” that will ……….never mind. Thie is too upsetting to continue.
Steve
Leave public land alone!!!! The incumbants will just screw up the sale.
Get rid of the tax and spend freaks. Now settle in by providing for the common defense and let the states work out the rest. Thrift needs to be taught once again. .
Ron & Sharon
Hold on! Unleashing private enterprise on our public lands does not always result in a positive outcome. Depleting the natural resources sometimes leaves the land undesirable for any use. Strip mining and timber clear cutting are examples of land being left in poor condition, increased flooding and damaged water supply. We should be very cautious in giving up any public lands.
essbee
I agree with joe pretty much. Our Fed gov has made such a mess of our assets and has over-spent and over-stepped their authority to the point that we are insolvent, The best and greatest country of all time has made huge mistakes, and as a result, must take severe actions. Sell off these assets and hope that private enterprise will manage them better. That has usually been the case.
joe
Our revenue problems are real, but I don’t think they are temporary. As a nation, we’ve borrowed and spent. To pay off the debt we can (a) raise taxes, (b) sell assets, or (c) cut promised benefits (reduce future obligations).
Of course my initial reaction is NO. At the same time, it’s hard to believe that all government lands are high quality and used for much recreation. Public Lands also cost money on an ongoing basis. We pay people to manage and maintain them, and local governments don’t collect any property taxes like they would if the land was privately owned.
In reality, I think we can expect higher taxes, reduced benefits, and the sale of some public assets. Unfortunately, our leaders have spent their way into a corner and it’s going to take quite a bit of shared sacrifice to dig our way out. That sacrifice is going to impact ALL of us in ways we don’t like.
If some public lands are on the chopping block as a result, I can understand why. I might not like it, but I can understand.
Our revenue problems are not temporary, and something has to give. Send the people you elected a nice thank you note for sticking you with the bill.