In this post we continue our in depth look at some of the points mentioned by others who commented on this project. Here are the second 10 items.
11. curbside vs. driver side dinette
I don’t think there is much room for disagreement here. I prefer the curb side dinette. I like sitting at the table in the morning, checking emails and looking out the window at my own patio, not whatever is on the driver side in my neighbor’s patio area. I see no good reason for putting the dinette on the driver side.
12. hinged stove top cover
This is one of my pet peeves and I discussed it in an earlier post. If an RV manufacturer is going to provide a cover for the range top, put it on a hinge so there is some place to store it. Simple solution, yet often ignored.
13. driver controls, arrangement and what do they include
I am going to save this subject for a future article. This is an area where the manufacturers should put in a lot more thought. I would like to hear some of your suggestions on this subject as well.
4. additional fire extinguishers
Fortunately, this is a subject that there should be no disagreement about and which can be solved easily. All RVers should carry extra extinguishers in their RV.
15. the “captcha code” on this blog
Is there anyone who disagrees with me on this one? Yikes, what an annoyance.
16. duel fuel fillers with 125 gallon tank
This is a feature that should be included on all DPs. If you are looking at one with only a single filler neck, consider where else the manufacturer may have cut some corners as well.
17. larger fresh/black/gray tanks
This is a subject where I would like to hear from owners. What capacity for each would you consider minimum and what would be an ideal capacity for these tanks?
18. convenient water manifold
My first motorhome was a Coachmen and it had a really nice arrangement of valves for controlling the flow of water. I have seen some that are really nice (some of the Monaco coaches come to mind) and some that made no sense whatsoever (like the one in my current motorhome). This is a subject that is difficult to describe but I would welcome any thoughts or suggestions for you folks.
19. one vs. one and half bath
I really have no use for the second bath and those RVers I know who have one really don’t like it. Is there anyone who is really “in love” with the second bath and thinks it is a good tradeoff vs. the loss of storage or living space?
20. basement entertainment center
I have mixed emotions on this subject. I agree that in general, RVing is an outdoor centered activity. However, I don’t think that means spending a lot of time in front of the TV outdoors. I will agree that it is nice to have an outdoor TV to view when you have friends over for the big game or to watch the race, and with the cost of large screen LCD TVs going down, it makes sense to have a good quality TV in the basement for outdoor viewing. I don’t think it makes much sense to have a high power radio/stereo system as this implies the real possibility of disturbing your neighbors or even distant neighbors in the campground. Keep in mind that your entertainment center also takes up valuable storage space in the basement.
21. basement freezer
I have never owned a basement freezer and cannot comment on this feature. I have heard some full timers who make good use of their freezer so I would put this in the category of “it’s up to you”.
In our next post, we will continue to wade through the list. In the meantime, happy camping.
Larry
Durand C
My wife and I have fallen in love with our bath and a half….it makes those midnight treks a little shorter and eliminates the competition.
Don H.
Driver controls. As a truck driver (30+yrs) dash board gauges and switches should be easy to read and reach. At a glance the gauges will tell what is happening, day or night. The designers might want to look at the Peterbilts, KW’s and the like. Sit in the driver seat, get a feel of the cab layout of what the driver sees while rolling down the road.
MrOAK
I own a 32′ Class A gas motorhome. In the last two years we have spent 11 months in the motorhome. My wife and I would love a bath and a half unit. There are plenty of times when we need to get going early and waiting for the other to finish getting ready is a pain. However you would need a larger unit than we have for the bath and a half. I would think that a curbside dinette would be better than our drivers side one. An outside mounted entertainment system would be good for the stereo (I use a portable one now fairly often), the TV would only be of use for sports during the day. We have a hinged cover and like it. The size of our tanks are fine as long as we do not camp with out full hookups often. Since we almost always use full hookups I don’t need larger tanks. However for other campers this may be a big issue. That’s why there are different models. More fire extinguishers? How could you say no to that. Better layout of the hook ups, you bet! I have seen a ton of higher end units that have much better layouts than mine.
Traveling Light 2
I have to say this is my favorite forum discussion. I always look first for new comments about the perfect DP.
One thing I recently learned…diesel fuel does not ordinarily go bad. We recently started up a unit that had sat for 5 years. The fuel was still quite good. I could not have done that with a gas engine. Before any of you jump to any conclusions, yes I had the help of some very good diesel mechanics and we performed all of the necessary checks before starting. That is a huge plus over gas. When I pump the first $300.00 of fuel in the tank, I will know that it will remain like money in the bank…or tank…Gas needs to have stabilizers added to remain usable. GREAT!
My humble but thoughtful comments follow. Thanks for letting me be a part of the conversation. I understand we are taking the chance of becoming known as verbose. Please understand that I am 61, and like many of my age and gender, I suffer from the misconception that humanity is waiting with baited breath for my wisdom, also the older I get the better I was. Here goes:
11. Curbside, best choice for us. Now we are wondering whether it should be fold up table with separate chairs (pleasant look design wise) or slide in dinette (with storage underneath). Comment: Many Table and Chair combination’s have the ability to be either 2 place or 4 place settings and the table of some can be folded down out of the way if needed. That seems to be a plus. We might want to use the floor space for dancing or something but we would have an option. The slide in booth has some advantages for storage, so if buying a shorter MH it might be more important, but the slide in is only for 4 place settings and they seem to be pretty skinny people, at least skinnier than I am. I think the perfect system is the small credenza along the wall with a fold down and expandable table mounted in the center of the unit with ability to have up to 4 chairs. YES, I am not sure where to keep the 2 folding chairs. The credenza becomes the side table when using the table as an office space. My brideandjoy can sit on one side with her computer and I can use the opposite side. We are a fulltime workamper couple and we find that being fulltimers creates different needs than camping, vacationing or even snow birding.
12. Hinged stove top good. Also like the idea of possibly using the cover for additional counter top space and will pursue that idea. Makes me wonder about the sink inserts as well, but they are usually mounted in the sink and are always a problem when we take them out to use the sink. Then they become “in the way”. While in the galley I would bring up that we have determined we would rather have a 3 burner stove and a pot drawer under it rather that an oven. Of course if you have no oven you will need a good convection microwave. But to us it seems like a whole lot better use of space. Also while in the galley, I always change the sink faucets for better sized house units. The ones normally provided by the manufacturers aren’t usually good quality or very convenient.
13. I agree that the cockpit area needs help. In this discussion in the future I would bring to the table the incredible fact that back up cameras are often difficult to view. We are also surprised that so many MH’s don’t have more of the common controls expected on cars of the same vintage. Don’t assume that the unit has intermittent wipers or that the cruise control is adequate. Dash areas are frequently slanted in such a way as to be unusable. Again, seems like a lot of wasted space. Cubic space is cubic space. It must all be usable or it is a waste. If it can have multiple uses so much the better.
14. Fire extinguishers. Pet peeve. I once pulled a man out of a burning car on the side of the road. We attempted to use our small FE that I carried in my car and it was a total waste. It was fully charged at the time and I was competent in its use (EMT), but it did very little to slow down the fire. We attempted to get the driver out of the driver side door but it was locked and the driver was too panicked to realize he needed to unlock it. A Truck Driver arrived just in the knick of time with a larger fire extinguisher and a tire tool. Even the larger FE did not put a stop to the fire. The fire was caused by a leaking carburetor line dripping on the intake. 5 seconds after we pulled the uninjured but totally out of it driver out of the car and carried him as far as 5 seconds would allow, the ensuing explosion knocked all 3 of us to the ground. Moral, get out, then fight the fire, be prepared with a plan of action practiced before hand. Don’t count on the small red canister mounted by your door, it is false security. If you have any doubts, just take one of them out into a field, start a small electrical or fuel related fire and see how well those small units don’t work. I have seen some new units on the market at the RV shows. We are thinking of having several of them mounted in many locations around the coach, but I will only grab them once all lives are outside and safe. I read recently that fires in MH’s rate VERY high on the list of insurance claims. Need a lot more thought here.
15. Captcha codes are a necessary evil these days. As you can see I am very long winded, so I am in the habit of writing my Blog or comments as a word document then cut and paste it to the comment box. If I get the Captcha code wrong I still have the document and don’t have to rewrite all of that incredibly important life changing(ha ha) info all over again. Understand that if the Captcha code looks unintelligible you can click on the drop down to have a new one appear that may be more easily read.
Additional note: We live in a different world now. Security is an issue in all things including something as common as having a conversation with like minded friends on the internet. The Captcha code is there like a lock on our door. I grew up without ever needing to lock my car or house door. I don’t live that way now and in fact consider a safe an important part of the perfect DP. If a unit I purchase does not have one, I will add one that is welded in place under the floor boards somewhere.
16. Dual Fuel fillers would be a plus. I don’t have them now. I think I would like to have them. I observed recently that it is not a good idea to fill from both sides at the same time. I count it as a blessing when I can learn a valuable lesson from some one else’s mistake. I admit I would have tried the same thing had I not seen what can happen. Diesel trucks have separate tanks and therefore can fill 2 tanks at a time, MH’s can’t.
17. Larger black and gray tanks are better within reason. This is an area where if there is space to have larger tanks it is better, but I don’t want to give up any storage space to accommodate them over and above what is adequate. I would like my gray tank to be able to flush out through the black tank as an option. I have found this is not always the case.
18. I completely agree that the manifold compartments are frequently not laid out well. And I do not understand why these compartments are not ALWAYS rust proof. What are the manufactures thinking? This stuff is always caustic. This is an area where perceived value is important. If the designer of the coach put good thought into this area then the rest of the coach is probably well thought out also. Sometimes it is the convenience of a simple item that is used every day that tips the scale in the mind of the consumer. Storage of hoses, pipes and drains should be thought out to make them more usable and efficient and shall I say PLEASANT? Reels for air and water hoses; Tubes for sewer lines; place for paper towels, gloves and hand soap are a must; If not standard then as an option. Any experienced RVer, I believe would pay extra in this area.
19. For us, one toilet is enough, but we do like the option of having the throne separate from the rest and private. It is also nice to have a sink in the commode area and a sink in the vanity area. To us 2 sinks is more important than 2 thrones. Again it comes down to storage cubic feet. We are working fulltimers. 2 sinks while getting ready for work is very helpful. Additionally, the black tank situation for 2 toilets can take away a lot of undercarriage space; adds a lot of weight that could be used for other things. I think this issue is probably different for the different levels of RV use; weekender/vacationer vs. extended or fulltime use of coach.
20. I must admit that when we first stated looking at DP’s, I was enamored with out door entertainment areas. Then when we decided to become fulltimers at all costs and cut our sticks and bricks expenses to the bone in order to have more cash, one of the things we got rid of was television. We were working so many different jobs that we were not frequently home and the cable and all the other items seemed superfluous. Now we have found for the most part we do not miss it. I would rather dedicate the space to some sort of work shop for woodcarving or woodworking tools. Again it comes down to what do you do, what are your interests, how do you live your RV lifestyle. With at least 2 units in the coach, I don’t think I need a TV or stereo system outside, but I admit this was not how I thought in the beginning. We are seriously thinking of removing the heavy TV units currently in the coach and replacing them with lighter weight flat screen units that use a lot less power.
I truly enjoy reading the comments; my only hope is that someday some of us meet face to face. You all have been very helpful in our transition from camper users to full time RV residents. Several of the misconceptions I held have been dispelled due to the comments and dialogue on this and other forums. Thanks a heap folks!
You all seem to be good folks to ride the river with, as they used to say in the fur trapping days.
Bill Chaffee
Speaking of TV’s. One night I got a brilliant thought. We never watch TV in bed so why have one there beside the fact that it came with the coach. I removed the TV and am getting doors and shelves put in to make a nice extra storage cabinet which comes in handy as full timers.
julie rea
Looking at a DP, now have 32ft. Dolphin (gas). Getting up into 36ft, some do NOT have refrigerator that uses propane. Told most like the electric. Well, dry camping for a week in a park with strict generator usage could cause warm food!
Nick Murabito
Just a comment about the perfect DP. As a fulltmer, I do a lot of driving either through small towns, construction zones, or back roads. I’d like to see an 8 foot wide coach. These 8 1/2 foot coaches are tough at times to get through narrow areas.
COWBOY EDMONDS
BATH AND A HAFF? GREAT IDEE! MORE CLOSET SPACE WITH WALK-IN. PLUS….. MY HUDNEY-WUDNEY HAS NIXED (DISQUALIFIED) ANY COACH THAT I’VE BROUGHT UP THAT DIDN’T HAVE ONE. SHE DON’T LIKE TO HAVE TO WAIT TO……… (YOU KNOW). (ESPECIALLY IN THE MORNING.) I DON’T LIKE IT NEITHER AND, A CHAMBERPOT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.
Phil Mitchell
Ref: Driver Contols
Manufactures should pay more attention to “HUMAN ENGINEERING” factors:
My MONACO has a great Instrument panel, HOWEVER the instruments are back lighted which is nice for reading the numbers but there is NO ILLIMUNIATION on the top of the POINTERS. The instruments are USLESS at night unless additional lighting is provided.
Additional running lights at the basement elevation should be a must on Class A MH’s.
QUALITY drawer slides should be mandatory.
Manufactures who use hardware thet rust should be commited to a rehilibation center for mental adjustment.
CliffG
we only have a 1 bath in our 30 ft. Class A Airstream, and it is usually adequate, but would be better if there were a separate “water closet” and the sink/vanity is not in the same room. This would elminate (pun intended) the conflicts when my wife is drying her hair or I’m using the sink for a few minutes.
I carried a portable music system for a while so I could set it up outside, but never did. We occasionally enjoy watching a movie we have brought along, or catching the local news/weather, & I upgraded the interor tv & sound system for that.
We would love to have a larger gray tank, maybe 60 or 70 gallons, if we did much boondocking, but we have not done that yet. With a 36 gal. grey tank we still need to pare down our use.
I’ve added one additional large fire extinguisher by my driver’s door. The first goal is to be safe, have a clear exit path: if the fire is between me & the regular exit then I will use the emrgency exit. If I have to bail out of my bedroom emergency exit because of fire I will have my hands on one of the extinguishers through one of the doors so I have a clear exit path.
Barry Engleman
Larry:
Just a few comments: We have a hinged stove top cover now and like it. In the last coach I created a space to put the covers so they created extra counter space when we were parked. That idea worked good also. But don’t make people lean them up against the side of the couch, etc.
The captcha code would be less annoying if you didn’t lose all your comments and have to start over again if you get the code wrong.
dual fuel fillers is soooo nice!!! We have 150 gallon capacity which is also nice. You don’t have to fill it to the brim if you don’t want to haul all that weight all the time.
I haven’t seen many water compartments I think are well done. I have been in the plumbing industry for thirty years and I like to see nice, neat manifolds with easy to understand valves, etc. It would look better if it were prebuilt in a shop using copper instead of pex going every which way with ugly crimp fittings. Use the pex in the places where you can’t see it. I had one coach that took me about four hours to change the water pump because its location was not well thought out for maintenance.
I always thought 1-1/2 baths was crazy and a bad use of space. But, we now have a really small sink and med cabinet in one corner of the bedroom and a toilet/sink room and we kind of like that arrangement.
We don’t watch TV inside. Why would we want to go outside to watch it! We go outside to enjoy the outside!
Thanks
Barry
hoppe
Captchas: It’s not the time involved it’s often my inability to read them correctly. Like the old ‘firewall’ story, keeps you off the Internet more than others out.
Double fuel fills a must have.
Basement Entertainment. NO thanks. Too many people assume that I like their music and shows. or NOT.
Dinette: SB curbside Always. Have a ;C; that’s going to get a table soon.
Spanky Goodin
I would love to have an extra “thunder room” for the times that the main bath is occupied and an urgency arises. The extra sink and vanity that we currently have very rarely gets used. Our dining table is on the patio side with a large picture window and we like it that way. I did install a 26″ outside TV in our last coach and didn’t use it nearly as much as I thought I would, but I do enjoy watching Nascar while relaxing on the patio. Even though our current coach is pre wired, I don’t think I’ll add an out door TV. I would like to have the gray tank much larger than the black, and an even larger fresh tank. Our corian stove top cover is hinged and works well. Can you ever have to many fire extinguishers? Our “1” is located at the exit door and I will install one in the bedroom. . We have an 07 Mountain Aire MACA 3991, which is a 40′ gasser on a 25.5 Workhorse chassis.
Lee
There are only two of us and we have never needed or wanted a second bath (toilet). Our rig is wired for the outside TV but why? Ok, no grand kids in our plans, and three TVs inside already seems overboard. We don’t like dinettes and have a dining table in the dining room on the curb side with panoramic windows. This works great for us.
Mel
In regards to item #15 in todays list. Yes the Captcha’s are a pain in the butt, but they are there to try and stop spam. I am webmaster of several blogs and 2 forums. one is a RV forum and I have Captcha’s on login, registration, comments, and contacts. Unless you are a webmaster and have had to battle thousands of unwanted comments and spam including porn put on a website or blog by spam bots (robots) then You might not feel it is needed or is a imposition. Let me assure you that for what little time it takes to fill the letters or numbers in a captcha it is well worth it to keep the spam and trash off of a website, Forum, or blog. this is especailly true if there are childeren present.
MH
Ray Martin
If you have grandkids it would be nice to have the downstairs tv,this way they don’t have to go in & out of the rig to watch the toon’s.Will keep the interior alot cleaner.
I would also agree with the dinette on the curb side.
Joan Calvin-De Lima
We own a 08 HR Ambassador 40DFT, with full wall slide. It has 1 1/2 baths. Thank You HR for making this available. We would not buy another coach unless it had the extra bathroom.
Our coach has the dining table on the drivers side and I really dislike the fact that we are always looking at our neighbours patio…when we have to have our meals inside.
We are fine with the sizes of our tanks. Bigger means more weight and fuel costs.
Our next coach will have the midship TV, dining table on the patio side and the extra bathroom. Enjoy the lifestyle you have chosen and travel safe!
Charlie Romine
My Tiffin has 0ne & half bath which i love. My wife does not have to wait on me & i do not have to wait on her. We have the connections for the basement tv but it is a waste. We don’t go r-ving to watch tv or listen to the stereo.R-ving to me & my wife is to see the sights & meet new people. Life is too short to waste time sitting around. The dinning room slide is on the drivers side but no big deal. The dual fuel inlets are worth the money. I do not have to worry which side of the pump to drive up to fill my 100 gallon tank. ( MONEY PIT).
No matter what you drive, just have fun & enjoy life, but it’s better in a Tiffin Phaeton.