While in Wilsonville, Or. at Pheasant Ridge RV Park I met another full-timer who had a Keystone Everest and showed me some insulation he had added. He said it made quite a difference in both cooling and heating of the coach. Now that I have done it I can see why. He had taken a styro-foam insulation and had placed it in the ceiling of his basement between the aluminum floor rails/studs. I took it one step further and also removed the cheap 1/4″ cotton bats of insulation between the belly pan and tanks and replaced it as well. Below I describe what I did….
Here is a picture of the basement ceiling before the insulation. You can see the aluminum floor braces and the plywood flooring, I first measured the voids where the insulation would go then cut them slightly over-sized and then wedge them in.
In this picture you can see the insulation after it was put in place. All I left to do here is trim/cut and loose material to give it a clean looking fit.
I used R-Tech Insulfoam (styro-foam). It can be bought at Home Depot. Good thing is the R ratings are great and it weighs virtually nothing. All you need to do this is a tape measure, ink pen, razor knife to cut the foam with and a vacuum to clean up all the loose bits of Styro-foam afterwards. A regular Razor knife with a long blade cuts it easily.
I used the same material in the area below the basement in the underbelly. The area between the belly pan and my tanks which is also heated by my furnace ducting. I pulled out the cheap 1/4″ cotton bats the manufacturer used and replaced it with the R-Tech bats. Great insulation and even of you do have a flood/leak you can simply pul it out let it dry and put it back in. It does not absorb water. Overall by putting the insulation in both the belly and basement ceiling it added a significant insulation factor to the coach. The full-timer I met who had done it and showed me said it made quite a difference in cooling and heating. Later I will extend the insulation in the basement storage all the way back as far as it will go beyond the basement wall toward the rear of the trailer. I’ll have to pull the basement walls to do so, but no biggie as I need to do my annual check of water lines and fittings for tightness. the whole project in both areas. It is a good days job, but not hard at all. Just time consuming. Pulling the belly pan is much easier with a good cordless screw driver by the way! I’m working on another cheap insulation project and will ad it when I am done. the overall cost of this project was only $57!!
For more information on R-Tech Insulfoam you can visit their website here.
*** Remember this project is specific to Keystone Challengers, Everest’s and Montana”s. It may not be prudent or effective on others depending on design.
For those interested here is some information regarding the type of foam insulation I used and some factors regarding the rigid foam type insulation….
Rigid Foam Insulation. One form of insulation whose popularity has grown steadily in recent years is rigid foam, also called foam board. Rigid foam insulation is typically used to insulate foundations and slabs. It also is applied on exterior roofs and walls, and may substitute for loose-fill or batts in walls, roofs and floor cavities, although it must be tightly fitted to prevent air infiltration.
Rigid foam insulation has insulation values nearly twice the R-value per inch of standard fiberglass and cellulose. Some rigid foam products are ideally suited for foundation insulation because they are water resistant and can be buried in the ground on a foundation’s exterior.
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Tony Cornett
Hi Anne!
I’m sorry for the late reply as I’ve not been in the blogs for a few days tending to other things. Well I am not a tire expert, but over the years and being close friends with a gentlemen who owned a local tire dealership in my home town for years I’ll say this…
Tires should be replaced especially on trailers every 7 years or so even if the read looks good. A couple reasons are the tires themselves start breaking down due to many reasons such as lack of use, weather and low pressure. If it were me and you;’ve already had two go I’d replace them all. Now you might want to have the tires inspected by a tire dealer to possibly determine if the remaining tires are safe to make the rest of the trip, thta may be a way to go.
Most of the time when I hear this story those who keep going on the same tires continue to have problems. Again it depends on how far you are going, speed, inflation of the tires themselves. many factors. It’s a real judgment call on your part. consider safety first of you and others, possible damage that may occur from another blowout ect.
My official answer to you has to be have the tires checked and see what the tire folks say and base your decision on that. Any other questions drop by my website and shoot them to me from there in case I don’t happen to see the blogs for a few days….. Tony
http://firedude.thefiredude.com
Anne
Hey Tony! T
his is way off topic, but I always read your posts with interest and admire your practicality, wisdom and sense of humor!!
I have a tire question for you.
I have a ’95 Class A that I have only owned for 1 year. I will probably keep it for one more year, two at the absolute maximum. That’s probably 4,000 miles give or take.
I just had my 2nd tire blow up. The tread just ripped off both times. 65mph~ both times. I am coming to the conclusion that my tires are too old to be safe. I am about 1000 miles from home.
Buying 6 new tires may cause me to make my upgrade to a different unit this winter instead of waiting. Hence my quesiton…. What are the safety considerations of buying just one (or most likely two) new front tires the same size as the 4 rear ones? Would you do that to drive 1000 miles at 55mph? What about 4000 miles?
I may be way stretching your expertise. But, I like you so thought I’d try you first. Thanks in advance for any advice or info to point me in the right direction for the advice/opinion I need.
No matter what you or anyone else advises me to do, this is my decision and no one is liable for giving me an opinion!!!! I will decide what to do and I will suffer the consequences, if any.
Thanks in advance for your prudent input!
Tony Cornett
Bill,
Sorry for the late reply, have been busy. The bats are 1 1/2″ thick.
Fred,
Thanks for the input. Mine have been there for just over 3 years now and just pulled a few to get the thickness for Bill as I couldn’t remember. I checked and in over 3 years the flooring was a dry as could be and looks new and there were NO signs of moisture whatsoever so I don’t think there is a big problem there. I spent the last 3 years on the beach where humidity was usually around 80 percent average and very damp. Anyway thanks for the food for thought. My floor still looks new and there weren’t even any signs on the wood nor the bats of moisture, stains or otherwise so I guess so far so good. Looks the same as the day I installed it!
Frederick Salman
Tony, although the styrofoam is a good idea, I can tell you from personal experience that it is not a good idea to place it directly on the wood in that is will over time cause the wood to rot. The wood, even most treated wood not certifyed for direct ground contact, must breath, and foam board simply does not allow this. I believe it best to leave at least a two inch gap between the board and the underside of the wood deck, and then make certain to check it at least twice a year for rot. Also, a better, although much more expensive obtion then styrofoam may be astrofoil, since it cannot catch fire and emits no poison gases. Againhowever it is still important to make certain that whatever moist air that might get traped between the foil and wood deck has a way to escape. The manufacturers of this product recommend at least a one half inch air gap between this foil and the wood service, both to prevent wood rot and to give it space to radiate the heat that stricks it back to its source. You may want to do a future article on this product and its possible uses. Tack care!
Bill Miller
Hi Tony, I wasn’t able to view your photo’s of your described work nor bring-up the Insulfoam site, it said there was an error in creating the site. What thinkness was the insulation board you were recommending ? Thanks.
Tony cornett
Kristi,
I believe the belly pan is just like the challenger. You’ll have to undo several bolts from one side of the coach on the bottom to allow the plastic belly pan be pulled own on the one side. Then you remove the thin cotton bats they use and replece it with the above mentioned in my article. It’s a good couple hours work, but worth the upgrade in insulation. It was for me….
Bruce
I also insulated my Everest that way, but I put the reflective side down. I did it that way for appearance purposes. I also need to block off the gaps on the tops of the basement walls. We get a lot of air coming through the return air vent in the living room that I think comes from the basement. Any thoughts or ideas on this?
kristi
Your post came at the right time, we were trying to come up with the answer to a winter of full timing it. What to do to stay warm !! we just bought an Everest, but it doesn;t mention any arctic package on this one (2005 344j) . And we’re seeing winter coming fast. Can I ask you about how you’ll get under the belly pan etc. ? I need as much information on this whole RV as I can. The previous owner replaced a gret-water tank because it froze…..
Tony cornett
Gary,
As I think I mentioned in the article I cut the sections slightly over sized and wedged them in place between the aluminum beams. They fit nice and tight and haven’t moved in a couple years.. No need for glue if you have an area to wedge them into.
Gail, thanks for the info!
Gary Workman
I assume you glued the styrofoam panels up? I believe they make a foam cement that can be used in a caulk gun. If other methods were used, please let me know.
Gary
Gail
On our Mountaineer, there are two close spaced alum floor braces covered with thin sheet metal making a duct feeding the furnace vent in the bedroom above. The problem here is there is only one vent in the bedroom and the rest of the duct is radiating wasted heat into the storage area. I used alum tape to block the duct just past the floor vent. Then after installing with the Styrofoam insulation as shown, I purchased another thin ¼” sheet and fastened that to the bottom of the sheet metal chase in the area of the active floor vent.
I also blocked the unused portion of the air conditioning ducts just past the last ceiling vents in the body of the coach. Not knowing how well the ends of these ducts are sealed at the factory, I just felt it was a good idea to block the unused portions. At the same time, I discovered a 1” plus gap between the ceiling duct and where the vents are screwed into the ceiling, letting a lot of air circulate in the space. Taping around the ceiling opening up to the opening in the duct solved that problem.
Tony cornett
Bob,
You’re right yet most everything in building an RV fits that MSDS. Many RV’s have the very same insulation in the walls. In my 33 years as a firefighter I am pretty safety conscious and don’t expect any problems. For one I replaced the main fire hazard in the basement that being the light. I changed it from incandescent to fluorescent. Those 11X bulbs get really hot yet the fluorescent does not.
RV fires go up like roman candles. I’ve been so many over my career I can’t count them. They best safety precaution in it all is to follow all the basic fire safety rules, have a functioning smoke detector and if there is a fire GET OUT. Depending on the fire loading in your basement the foam would probably not be a huge a factor. The basement walls, carpet and wood floor above and contents alone would be enough to generate the conditions you mention. It’s the things people store in their basements that would concern me more than a few sheets of insulation. 😉
In my 20 years as a fire investigator most RV fires have not originated in the basement and those that I’m aware of were due to something up next to the good old incandescent light left on and something next to it of which I do not have. If you have a fire in your basement, it really doesn’t matter what you have anyway, you’d better get out fast irregardless.
My project so far over the last couple years has paid off nicely in cold weather. I’m not too worried about a fire in the basement. Take a look at the MSDS’s of most the materials used to build your RV and you might be shocked or at least surprised.;-)
Bob
Tony, I couldn’t get your link to the manufacturer to work however I did find their site.
While an excellent insulation solution, I would not be comfortable having exposed surface polystyrene foam on the ceiling of a storage area in my RV. A small fire in the storage area could lead to disastorous results for the occupants above and the vehicle. At one time (and possible still) the fire protection community referred to polystrene foam as “the solid that burns like a flammable liquid”.
From the companies Material Safet Data Sheet
Unusual Fire & Explosion Hazards: If exposed to fire, high heat will develop and may produce dense black smoke.
Tony Cornett
Mine has no silver backing since it isn’t reflecting radiant heat or otherwise. It’s the rigid foam all the way. By the way this works both for summer and winter. It made a big difference for me. The great part as well if it were for some reason to get wet like fiberglass bats (they have to be tossed) this stuff is simply dried off and it’s fine. I also use it in the “belly pan” following a basement flood a couple years ago. I removed the soaked bats and replaced it all with this stuff. Had another basement flood about a year later (argh!) and all I had to do is drop one side of the belly pan and set up a fan along with the daily wind and it was dry in no time!
Alpenliter
Tony is that the type of styrofoam insulation that has a silver backing, or is is styrofoam throughout?