By Brian Brawdy
This stinks – literally. Once again, politicians busy themselves pandering to constituencies all the while ignoring scientific facts. The latest proposal comes from the State of California and Assemblyman Bill Monning, a Democrat from Santa Cruz. The legislation, AB 1824, would ban the use of holding tank products containing bronopol, dowicil, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, paraformaldehyde and para-dichlorobenzene, according to the proposed bill.
This “ban” or “proposed prohibition” is sponsored by the California Association of RV Parks & Campgrounds and the California Travel Industry Association and would make it a crime, and therefore you and I “criminals” for having a deodorant in our holding tank that uses any of the above additives when crossing state lines into California.
Don’t like being called a criminal? According to the current writing, “A violation of the hazardous waste control law is a crime.”
Forgetting, for the moment, the obvious bias from a organized group of RV Parks and Campgrounds that would rather point the finger at us as opposed to accepting their responsibility for the proper and sustained maintenance of community holding tanks, let’s add a bit of science to the insanity.
I asked Mary Burrows, Manager of Chemical Development for the Thetford Corporation about the bill. She provided me with an exhaustive list of scientific studies and summarized the results. “The results are clear. Properly sized and maintained waste treatment systems successfully treat high strength holding tank waste and the deodorants they contain. With normal use the deodorants work by controlling odors through chemical reactions with plenty of healthy bacteria left in the holding tank.” She went on to say that she has been sharing these third party studies with the proponents of the bill but has not yet seen them interested in the science.
Oh great. Now a non-disclosed governmental “department shall develop and adopt regulations to define non-biodegradable toxic chemicals.” Don’t you feel so much safer? I know I do. Do you feel any safer knowing formaldehyde is a natural occurring substance found in human blood, pears, apples, cabbage, carrots, green onions, spinach, tomatoes, pig and sheep meat products, poultry, cheese, milk, cod and even shrimp?
Those dastardly shrimp!
Think Assemblyman Monning doesn’t dig science? Wait a minute. According to his website, “Assemblymember Bill Monning expressed disappointment today at the announcement by the California Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) to propose registration of the pesticide, Methyl Iodide for use in California. The announcement was made yesterday through DPR’s website. Assemblymember Monning had these words to say in response to the news: ‘In light of the overwhelming scientific evidence put forth by the external peer review board, this decision was a disappointment. There are ongoing safety concerns about rural farm workers and residents who work and live in proximity to agricultural fields. The external review panel indicated there are high risks to human health and the environment to use of this pesticide. It appears that commercial enterprise has outweighed public health interests in this case. I hope that DPR will reconsider its decision.’”
Oh, so he does dig science and established scientific evidence after all? Hmmmm
Whenever a politician introduces a law void of supporting science—or molds it to fit his/her point of view– and ultimately vague in both its scope and definition, I always take pause.
California can’t keep out illegal aliens or marijuana but they can make sure you and I don’t mule toilet deodorants, that we don’t traffic in controlled commode chemicals? Perhaps we should boycott California, give them their own “Arizona Treatment” when and if this bill becomes law.
To learn more about Brian Brawdy, please visit BrianBrawdy.com
Rodney
What a shame that such a beautiful state is home to so many idiots – those that run the state and those that elect them. Everyone that I know as a camper loves nature and is careful to keep it as fitting of a custodian of the Earth; however, there comes a point when people try to make laws to control others and make up ridiculous reasons as to why such laws are important. People of California, you need to be more careful about those you elect. I understand that we, the other 49 states, are now bailing you out and buying you a rail system. Don’t you think you need to consider how you are spending your own money and ways to be successful by having tourists – including those with HOLDING TANKS? I think it is time people need to start realizing that officials are our employees, not overlords.
J Beech
I am soooooo sick of the greenies and eco friendly types. I want to pull what little hair I have out. I’ve tried the eco friendly tank treatments. They don’t work, period! They, especially, don’t work in hot weather. Formaldehyde and it’s analogs break down when in water, and do so relatively quickly. Formaldehyde is not detrimental to septic systems. It’s the big dump of waste all of a sudden that fouls up the septic system. It’s an overload of biologic substances not formaldehyde that causes septic problems. The blue stuff that the greenies are soooo afraid of is great I use it all of the time it kills the stink and it’s a great emulsifier, for those non-technical greenies that means it disperses the caca and paper. Stop worrying about trivial stuff like this, there are bigger issues like terrorism, the economy which is on the verge of a socialist take over, a president that is about to take us into a socialist nirvana etc… Oh yeah, I’m a Califas native with a background in chemistry and biology (I worked in the industry for years), and those of you boycotting us keep out we don’t need you anyway, and if leaving take a couple of greenies with you. Long live Jefersonia!!!!!!
Art
Interesting comments. We full time RV and have never used any product in our tanks and have no problem with odors. You think that you must use these products just because the industry tells you you should. Not so.
We also own a RV park just about as far north and east as you can go in CA. I would love it if you used the Robic product in your Tanks if you ever stay with us. It would put all those little natural bugs to work in my septic tanks. As for where to buy it as was asked above our local ACE Hardware carries it.
The RV Park industry here in CA had a Water quality control person going around southern CA writing cease and desist orders for RV parks that had septic systems threatening to shut them down if they continued to allow products using Formaldehyde to be discharged into their systems. The individual did not have the backing to do that and that was averted for a time. Therefore the support of the state RV Association for a law banning the use of these products in CA. As a small business owner I have to protect my lively hood. If that means asking you not to use a product that could put me out of business? What would you do? There are numerous eco friendly products you can use if you feel you must have a deodorant in your tanks.
When you talk about not coming to California, about Boycotting the state and not spending money here who do you hurt. The small business not the big State. I like the comment above they pass the laws and few are ever enforced. Gives that expensive legislature something to do.
I understand where Brian is coming from and he has tried to make it clear it is the law not whether the product is good or bad. Although if this is listed at state and federal levels as a hazardous material what is it doing to the ground water and ultimately to rivers and oceans?
Just food for thought.
Nat Gildersleeve
I can’t boycott California. Unfortunately I live here. Our legislature continues to do stupid things. You can not buy a portable gas can in this state that does not spill gas all over the place…thanks to our misguided legislators. Dumb!!! No wonder the state is going broke.
Anna
For those posters who say that’s fine, stay out – it’s more space for us… that’s great, but may I remind you that California is nearly bankrupt now, and without those tourism dollars that you seem to despise, the state will be in deeper doodoo.
Most Rvers are sensitive to the environment and are not trailer trash and if you don’t want us to spend our dollars in your state, that’s fine. We’ll spend them elsewhere.
Justin
Yet another reason I’ll not be making a trip to CA anytime soon. That state is in such a state of chaos I have no desire to visit there.
Larry Walker
Would not go to CA with the RV-this is just one more reason not to spend my tourist dollars there-not to mention all their other laws that are allready on the books. Thanks for the info, Larry
Phil Schoner
I have been full-timing for 5+ years and never used anything but Rid-X. No odors, no problems. Just good ol bugs. It does cost a bit – 8 bucks a box that lasts about 5 tank fulls. Thomas, where can I buy Robic?
Brian Brawdy
Barbara,
First, I’m glad you’re a chemist. i’ll bet you are a great one.
Secondly, I’m not, AT ALL concerned about the chemicals in question. My “much ado about nothing” is about the process by which a politician(s) attempt to enact laws based on science when, in fact they have not used or attached scientific data or studies to support their position.
We’ve gone to war in the past over “chemicals of mass destruction” only later to find out that there was no threat. Plenty of fabricated fear, but no threat.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Barbara O'Keeffe
Brian,
I’m sorry, but you are worked up over nothing. I’m a chemist and there is NO REASON to use anything with formaldehyde in it. Remember, formaldehyde is the thing that the frogs, etc., were preserved in – – you don’t want to preserved your poop do you? The same regulations exist in all parts of this country. This is more MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.
Barb
Karen
I don’t believe that a spokesperson from the company that manufactures the products in question is a proper expert. Of course Mary Burrows is going to tell you that formaldehyde, , along with all of the other chemicals , is harmless but if you go to the Thetford website and look at the safety data sheet for Aqua-Kem , you’ll see that formaldehyde is listed as a hazardous material. Why use these chemicals if it’s not necessary? It’s easy enough to use a harmless method. Thetford also tells us that we should use their special toilet paper and we all know that isn’t necessary.
Do the right thing for the future generations. It’s not much of a sacrifice. I’m certainly glad that our sewers no longer run into the rivers and that chemical plants can be fined for dumping waste materials onto the ground and it’s all because somebody thought about our future and how the pollutants could harm us.
lajuene
We can’t wait to go to California AND Arizona…never been. We could care less what anyone else thinks or says. One person says blah blah blah and half the country turns into a 6 year old and stomps their foot. I’d rather enjoy myself……
Brian Brawdy
Melvin, It’s Brawdy.
Notwithstanding my opinion of the chemicals in question, the California Statute does in fact “criminalize” their possession. Read the law. My point is a simple one. When any government is able to enact legislation suggesting scientific support when they have not supported their position with scientific evidence, we need to stand up to that fraud.
Like the chemicals, great. Don’t like the chemicals, great.
My beef is with a government that implies one thing and does another.
Thanks for your note.
Doyle
It is about time for this change. People will not take care of the earth God gave us unless a law and punishment is passed. God saw this in the beginning that is why he gave us laws with punishment. God bless California.
The Texan
Even though we don’t use any of the chemicals, unless they reside in Rid-X septic system products, we don’t like to be told we are criminals if we have some in the RV. Although we travel through CA several times a year, we will refrain from spending any money there. We can buy our fuel in neighboring states and cook our own meals in the RV. Sorry CA, but you are a loser, with your extreme liberals and greenies.
Melvin Johnson
Brian Bawdy should know that those chemicals are bad for the environment.
California hopefully knows that they cannot criminalize users of those chemicals.
RVers do not have to use any product to deodorize their tanks as long as we manage our sewage properly. It’s all about cleanliness and common sense.
Barry S
Politics always trumps the truth. California is on the brink of bankruptcy, now some dumb politician wants to keep people would would spend their money here out of the state? It figures! It seems that we taxpayers in California suffer from an excess of brainless wonders who were elected by those of the same ilk, resulting in their conviction that the word “profit” is a dirty word.
If potential customers are told not to enter the state, business suffers, resulting in a higher unemployment, resulting in more people on the “dole,” resulting in higher taxes, resulting in…….oh, forget it. You know what I mean. By all means, stay in Arizona. It’s the one state that has any common sense left.
Thomas Becher
I use Robic (a septic tank product) which is billions of good bacteria. It helps clean the tank and is recomended for septic tanks. I have never used a product like thetford. Why spend money if you don’t have to. A teaspoon of what I use is a few cents. The problem with dump stations is not the chemical but the sudden influx of all that waste, unlike home where it goes in slowly, a dump may be 100 gals of concentrated poo.
Adventurers2
We will be boycotting CA, with pleasure. Nothing there that interests us. And we will be visiting Arizona and all it has to offer. Thanks for the info.
Manuel Enos
Another idiot green law from the great bankrupt state of CA…WOW…The only good thing about CA is Chip Foose….What do you expect to come out of a state that has the 9th circuit court residing in it…Most of us do check the labels of what we put in our tanks on our RV’s and really don’t need the government telling us what to use!! Hopefully AZ will cut off the 25% electrical power it is sending to LA and they can therefore pedal their bicycle powered generators to produce their electricity and get rid of the smog!! Please tell me what CA has that would entice anyone to RV there???I plan on visiting the Grand Canyon and help AZ support their state!!
RV camper
Makes me want to go to cali and dump my tanks full of chemicals now.
Doug
It is difficult to understand why people do ot care about putting toxins into the environment! Seems there is little care for children, grand children and so on. Personally since I use no chemicals and have a healthy non toxic diet I never have a problem with odor in my tank. I would hop that people would learn much more and attempt to do as little destruction to the earth and creating cancer for future generations. It is easy to be selfish and a little more difficult to really care. Please love your children and grand children and even yourself. There is no need to buy, use and expel toxins into our world. Thank you for caring!
Bill
I use the Thetford products and I do believe they state they are formaldehyde free.
As for boycotting California, well…, I’m in Michigan and don’t want to travel that far anyway. If I lived out west I don’t think I would want to visit California anyway (well at least not southern California anyway) . High gas prices, undocumented and uninsured drivers in large numbers, crammed freeways to name just a few items. That is not a knock on the their parks and recreational facilities as I believe they are as good as anywhere else in the country.
Pat
This sure makes travel plans easier…first AZ and now CA! Looks like the SW is working hard to keep the rest of us out, so we get the message and will be staying away…there are plenty of beautiful and more open minded states and provinces to visit!
Merryann Palmer
We were going to see our nephew, the Gunny, at Pendleton next summer & spend our stay at the base campground. Maybe we’ll just meet him in Vegas – or even better – Arizona!
Gerald Strickland
Barbara said, “…almost all places IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ban the use of formaldehyde containing products to be dumped down their drains – especially if they have septic systems and not sewers.” and I believe that she is correct based on my travels. Also, Rick said, “Haven’t used any chemicals in any holding tank for over 10 years. Just have an Extreme vent and no odors.” He is absolutely correct! I have used those vents on my last two coaches with no chemicals and no odor. I have one on the black vent and one on the gray vent.
Skip
We love the White Mountains in Arizona and will be spending time there this year instead of CA. We had planned to go to Julian, CA but because of the ignorance of the San Diego city council, which is near Julian, we will boycott them instead.
Today our President sided with the Mexican president in his condemnation of SB 1070. I am so glad that I didn’t vote for him and am truely embarrassed by him. He talks about the problem with the Arizona boarder. It is the boarder of the United States and happens to be on the southern edge of Arizona. Feds, do your job.
hoppe
I suspect that everyone is being overly reactive. Is it offensive at face value? You bet. Is there a reason for it? Maybe. Cost of waste treatment? Might be a bit of a problem, not sure. One thing is for sure however. The Republic of Caly. is really good a passing laws. But not all that good at figuring out how to pay for the mandate. They seem, Not all about the taxes needed to pay for the unfunded mandates.
On the other hand the home remedy listed above sounds very effective and probably a LOT less expensive! Just a thought.
hop
Barbara
Just use Odorlos as your black tank emusifier/deodorizer and you’ll have no issues with odor or state laws. There is absolutely no reason in this day and age to use a formaldehyde (paradehyde, etc.) chemical in your holding tanks. Thetford should cease and desist in manufacturing these products. Enzyme based products such as Odordos and Lemonite (for gray tanks) work well and don’t do any harm to septic systems, lakes, streams, or any other part of the environment. I agree with earlier posters – if you don’t go to California, it will be that much more pleasant for us this winter!
Brian Brawdy
Hey Percy. I hope you are right.
Have a great summer.
Percy Lloyd
It isn’t a law yet, only a proposal that will probably go nowhere. I love CA & won’t be boycotting it. Here’s to uncrowded campsites!
Brian Brawdy
TravelingLight2. Thanks for your comments. Living off the grid for me also means calling into question those laws and rules I believe to be without merit. I could be wrong, perhaps I am, but if you ban a chemical by statute, shouldn’t you use a scientific study to support your position?
When you read the new law, it is clear they failed to do so.
If a further investigation of the facts proves me wrong, I will apologize in a post, right here on RV.Net.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
TravelingLight2
Wouldn’t it be better to think through the actual list of chemicals that are being banned before jumping to the conclusion that the ban is wrong? How many States have had to close free dump stations because the chemicals that were being dumped into them were killing the natural bacteria that are beneficial and required to make municipal sewage plants work? Brian, you are the “live in the wild off the grid guru” we all turn to for advice. I think you might want to check your facts before locking and loading on this one. We depend on you for info, but on this subject you are only partially correct. Being close to the target does not a 10 ring make.
John Hinbest
Is Calafornia going to post all the aceptable products on all the travel flyers and websites so we can know what to bring. It is fun enought just getting to Buffalo know.
John Hinbest
Fort Erie Ont
Brian Brawdy
Hey folks. Thanks for the rips and the tips.
I only wish the politicians sponsoring this bill put as much thought in to it as you have all done.
Thanks again!
Kev
As I am from AZ, we will be boycotting CA anyway, this just adds to the list. LOL!
Barbara O'Keeffe
First, formaldehyde isn’t found in your body in a free floating state – it is quickly oxidized to formic acid. Second, it isn’t found in the foods you mentioned either – formaldehyde is a highly reactive small compound that comes from the oxidation of methanol to formaldehyde to formic acid and finally to CO2 in the body.
Second, almost all places IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ban the use of formaldehyde containing products to be dumped down their drains – especially if they have septic systems and not sewers. So are you all going to forgo going anywhere.
Third, the sky isn’t falling. Just add plenty of water and save yourself money – you don’t need anything besides plenty of water. If you smell it in your rig, fix your seals. Dump only when full and use a lot of water.
BTW – thanks for all of you boycotting California – – means we will have an easier time getting a spot.
Rick
Thank you all for staying out of CA. More room on the roads and at the campsites for us. 😉
Haven’t used any chemicals in any holding tank for over 10 years. Just have an Extreme vent and no odors.
Jim Spellman
As a long-time resident of the Golden State (albeit a “military brat” originally born in New York and currently serving my country), I’d like to thank the “boycotters” who need a little more cheese to go along with their whine.
Seriously, your absence will make places like Sequoia, Kings, Yosemite, Big Sur and all the places from San Diego to Santa Barbara to San Francisco to Redding and points in between that less crowded for me and my kind to enjoy.
Mel
I live in Arizona during the winter months and northern Nevada during the summer. We won’t be going to California anymore and have decided to boycott it like some of the misinformed people of California are doing to Arizona. For those of you who must go there here is a what we use in our Gray and Black tanks on our 2002 Pace Arrow motorhome. get a empty plastic gallon jug and add the following.
1 Cup of Pine Sol
1 Cup of houshold Ammonia
1 Cup of Fabric Softner. (snuggle or any other brand)
8 oz of Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
Put it all in Empty Gallon Jug and add water to fill Jug.
Shake well and add one cup to each empty tank pour some down each drain. as tanks get half full add another cup. It stops Odors, Lubricates and cleans tanks and valves.
It works great for us and we have never had any smell or stink even when dry camping for two weeks in Death Valley when it was hot. That should take care of the problem.
Mel
Jerry
I have a wedding to attend in ca but after that I heading to ARIZONA boycott CALIF
catchesthewind
Add me to the ever growing list of people that will boycott California and the companies that do business there. I will not buy California wine nor will I buy or see new movies. I will however support all things Arizona.
Sheila Allison
Now if it passes who is going to test the black tanks to see if it contains any deodorants. How much would that cost. They would have to have stations set up on each road coming into the state operating 24/7 and how many people would have to be there to operate them. $$$$$$ How can they spend that kind of money. I thought that the state was almost broke. Who would give the tickets and make the arrests. Gosh the police force would really have to be increased. More jail cells and even ones to hold the kids with parents. I guess they could just make campers turn around. I could think of more but I think we all get the drift.
Sheila
Brenda Colbath
Ok! So what do we put in our tanks??? Chanel #5??? Not being a scientist myself I just put in what the manufacturer of the vehicle recommends. So are the Potty Police going to stop all RV’s and sniff the Potty? Or are they going to take a sample of each holding tank that passes onto the unsullied ground?? Maybe they will put some of the fines into fixing the roads. Will stay away if possible.
Hotshower
Jim Whittaker
I just cancelled my trip that was planned for Sept. I wasn’t really looking forward to the long drive. They just gave me one more reason to NOT visit that state. I may change my plans and stay in Arizona, I like the new laws.
Bob Smith
I for one will not begoing to Ca. I have been there several times and wasn’t impressed any time. I think only certain people are in ca and I will stay away from their borders.
George Morris
I’ve not gone back since I moved out in “91. I wouldn’t go back now if you gave me the place
Bruce Lefebvre
I was never crazy about going to California in the first place, but now I know I will stay out of that state.
Jim
As far as I’m conserned, I’ll will be boycotting CA.
I have no reason to take my camper there.