The Joys of Not Being a Caveman
Howdy !
Indoor plumbing is one of the greatest inventions made by modern man, leastways that’s what my Granny used to say – and after using the ol’ Outhouse for my first dozen or so years I gotta agree !! The inventor of the of the RV/Marine toilet goes unsung but not forgotten by the users of all RV’s. Being able to take the bathroom along with us on our treks eliminates one of the more irksome problems of camping out. Most of the difficulties encountered with RV sanitation systems are a result of the users lack of understanding of their waste holding systems.
The Tanks
Although waste tanks have been constructed of fiberglass and metal, today’s black and gray water tanks are usually constructed of low density polyethylene materiel which is durable and easy for manufacturers to mold into the shape best suited to fit a particular RV. The color of the tanks may be black, gray or even white. If in doubt as to which tank your dealing with, look at the drain valve.
The black tank has a 3 or 3 1/2 inch valve and the gray or galley tank will have a 1 1/2 or 2 inch valve. Gray water tanks contain water from the kitchen sink, the lavatory sink , shower and, in some cases, the washer output. Depending on the layout of the RV, you may have a separate galley tank for the kitchen. All these tanks will also have a 1 1/2 inch vent-pipe going through the roof which is held in position by special rubber grommets, gluing the pipe to a PVC fitting in the tank or straps that support the weight of the pipe above the tank. If the vent-pipe slips down inside the tank or becomes blocked with trash from the top because of a broken or missing vent-pipe cap, it will cause foul odors to gather in the RV and in some cases the toilet to “spit back” toward the user of the device – somthing your not likely to forget soon! The solution is to check that the pipe is clear and that it has not slipped down into the tank to the point that it is being blocked by the tanks contents.
The probes
There will also be level sensors for the tank which are connected to the monitor panel inside the RV. These may be the radar type which are applied to the outside of the tank or the probe type that are screwed into the side of the tank. Some of these probes are fixed into the tank and cannot be removed. Some are held into the tank by expanding rubber plugs or wellnuts and can be removed for cleaning. For the fixed type you can buy a contact cleaner from any RV store. Go to a dump site and flush the tank as best as you can by using a cleaning rod or built-in flushers. Following the directions on the package, premix the cleaning solutions and pour it into the black and/or gray tank. Most of these cleaners want you to fill the tank partway and then go for a drive to completely mix the cleaning solution. You then let the mix sit in the tank for up to 24 hours and then drive for several miles to slosh the mixture and aid in the cleaning effect. Now drain and flush the tank at the dump site and with a bit of luck and chemical magic the monitor panel will show the correct levels. For the removable type probes you can often fix the problem by draining the freshwater tank and removing the probes. Clean them with fine steelwool or a 3-M Scotchbrite pad to remove mineral deposits, wash the probes and then re-install them into the tank. Gotta confess here, I’ve use one or two 20-pound bags of ice down the toilet with a 1/4-full tank of plan water then gone for a drive. The ice bangs the, uh, crud offen the walls and probes and you just do a normal flush at the end of your drive.
Tank repairs
Sometimes the worst happens and the tank develops a crack or split. Here you have three options. The first is the use of a plastic epoxy repair kit made for fresh water tanks like the Syon repair kit. Solvent type cements or fiberglass resin will not bond to polyethylene tanks, the Syon kit will. The second option is to find a shop that can do plastic welding. A special hot air gun is used to soften and melt the area of the area around the crack and then fill the crack by “welding” with plastic rods. Plastic welding is a definite an art form and it’s difficult to find someone that can do it well. The third option is to replace the broken tank with a new one. Waste water tanks are priced by their complexity and size. A 3-5 gallon tank will cost around $60.00, a 41-45 gallon tank about $175.00 and a 100 gallon tank a bit over $300.00.
The Valves
RV dump valves are almost foolproof and require only a minor amount of maintenance. An “O” ring seals both sides of the sliding valve. These rings need to be replaced every few years as they wear and become aged. An excellent idea is to remove the 4 bolts that hold the valves together and clean and lubricate the “O” rings and moving parts. Use of a high silicone lubricant like “Sil-Glyde” will prevent warpage of the plastic parts. Another trick I use is to drill a 1/8-inch hole about an inch down from the top of the valve face, or an inch above the rod for the dump valve. I then pump in a little bit of Sil-glyde into the hole then plug it with a small SHORT screw to keep the dirt out. I’ve never had a valve jam, stick or bust after doing this modification.
Pipe repairs
Almost all black and gray water pipes are made from ABS or PVC plastic. The joins between pipes are almost always glued and must be cut apart and new pipe spliced in to effect repairs. Care must be taken when using ABS or PVC cement as it will ruin carpet and tile flooring. Unless you are very familiar with cutting and working with plastic pipes it’s best to have a RV technician or a plumber do the repair work. In an on the road emergency the pipes can be held together with black radiator tape or sheetmetal duct tape.
P-Traps
Do not glue the screw-in sections of pipe under the sinks ! Ya, I know thats the way most of them come from the factory these days, so in the event you need to replace them use the presure or screw fitting types. These are called P-traps and prevent odors from coming up from the gray tanks and out of the sink drains. They also trap items that may have been dropped down the sink. Hair accumulation in the P-trap is a problem for many RV’ers. If sink drains very slowly the odds are good that there is hair caught in the P-trap. Simply un-screw the fittings under the sink to remove the trap and then clean out the junk. Replace the trap and the sink should drain properly. You also need to drain them in the winter to keep them from frezing.
Inspecting the system
As a minimum the area around the dump valves should be checked during use. Remove the cap from the dump pipe and see if there is any fluid accumulation there. This would indicate a possible leak or a valve that is not closed fully. Check that the braces or straps used to support the valves and pipes from the tanks to the valves are in good condition. If your gray and black tanks are visible from under the RV they should be looked at every week to see if there is any leaking or wet areas that would indicate a potential problem. On a monthly basis look under the sinks and see if there is any moisture around the P-traps and bottom of the sinks. A problem in some sink cabinet designs is the exposed pipe coming from the drain. When we stuff the cabinet full of the things we need for our trip it puts pressure on this pipe and can crack it. If the dump valves and pipe are exposed under the RV extra care needs to be taken when driving through road dips or speed bumps.
Dumping the tanks
The normal sequence for dumping the tanks is to open the black tank first. Partially refill it with water using a non-drinking water hose then use a flush stick or built-in tank flushers and then dump it again. This ensures that all the solids on the bottom of the tank are removed. Never leave the black tank valve open when parked at a campsite ! The liquids will go out the sewer hose leaving the solids on the bottom of the black tank. After a time the solids assume the consistency of cement and are almost impossible to remove. There have been reported cases where the solids built up high enough and blocked off the tank completely ! After dumping and closing the valve on the black tank you can dump the gray and/or galley tank. This flushes the pipes and the sewer hose. Rinse the sewer hose with fresh water. Do not stick the water hose down the sewer hose and do not use the white fresh water hose.
Tank products
There are dozens of products on the market to break down the wastes and deodorize the black tank. These fall into three major groups, the first being ones using formaldehyde which is very effective as a deodorizer and waste digester but will also kill good bacteria in septic tanks. Secondly are the neutral chemicals which do a fair to good job of deodorizing the tank and breaking down the solid wastes. Some of these affect septic systems and some don’t, read the label. Thirdly are the non-chemical, enzyme-based products that use live bacteria to digest the odor causing agents and break down the solid waste. This type assists septic system function. Other products on the market will lubricate the dump valves, digest toilet tissue, clean indicator probes and clean the gray tank from soaps and fats that accumulate there. If you leave about 5 gallons of fresh water in the black water tank and add the tank treatment of your choice before going on the road the water and chemicals slosh in the tank and do a super job of cleaning for you. Ah, don’t forget the ice – –
Ah, the thrill and excitement of the open road. The peace and quite shaded woods. The comfort of having your own home in the campsite with it’s own bathroom when hearing the call of nature. It just doesn’t get any better than this.
Later – –
The Old Ranger
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OKC Plumber Services
Indoor Plumbing is the best services for the business.
George Schutz
Need HELP hope you can help me with my proplem WHY is my Fresch watertank filling up after it is connected to CITY WATER??
I replaced the demand Pump with a new one-no help same proplem,
Check,t Valve wich you switch from FILL TANK to City Water no Sign of leaking
Check,t & clean,d PressureValve wich you hook up the Hose all this dind help fix my Water proplem ,Hope you can give me some HELP to fix this.
Thanks for your Time
George
Janie
Hi MIke… What a great article on RV tanks! It has gone in my “save” folder for sure. I was wondering if there is any way you could provide a photograph or two of the suggestion you make about drilling a hole above the dump valves for putting Sil-Glyde into them? This might seem like a silly request to those for whom the suggestion is self-evident through your description — and I may not be asking the question correctly. I just don’t know enough about what’s BEHIND the face plates in that plumbing control bay to go drilling holes in it blind! Wish I had ex-ray vision 🙂 Here’s a photo of my plumbing bay – red arrows show the two black & gray tank dump valves.
http://personal.summitvisions.com/rv/plumbingbay.jpg (I’ve replaced the end handles with metal ones that don’t break since this pic was taken.)
Thanks!
Janie
Mary Henry
Hi Mike,
We have a gray water tank with a smelly problem. When we empty it, wow, does it have an odor! I wipe the dishes before washing them to keep the residue out of the tank. We use liquid soap and have tried that stuff that’s supposed to break it up and clean the residue our out of there. Are there any suggestions you can give me to clean it out properly? I’ve sun out of ideas. Thanks for your input. Mary
Rhena Morris
Hi–I picked up the sewer snake but the shower plate would not come off. I tried to pry it up and also tried to see if it screwed on. Is there a special way to remove this plate without breaking of bending the plate?
Mike Seffen
Howdy !
Nope, don’t dump that caustic stuff down your tank ! It’s designed for city sewer system, metal or ceramic house sewer pipes and lots of water to flush it down the line.
Normally the P-trap is located almost directly under the drain of the sinks and shower. The problem is that sometimes the only way to get to one in an RV is to rip things apart, and that’s a bummer !
Try this,go to a hardware store and get a small sewer snake – you will only need one about 4 to 6-ft long. Now remove the plate from the shower drain and clean the hair and old soap from it then use the snake to push the junk clear of the P-trap down into the gray water tank.
That should do it for you, please let me know if it worked for you. Hope this helps !!
The Old Ranger
Rhena Morris
I live in a Kounty Star Rv 2004 and been having problems with the p-trap for the shower. The water has been backing up and draining very slowly for some time. I did not know about p-traps and also do not know where to find them so I have been using a liquid drain cleaner about once a month or sooner. Is this ok to use?
Mike Steffen
Howdy !
I use teflon tape on the loose ones. Just puting a couple of wraps around the threaded end should do it. If the ones you have are the pressure fit type with a gasket to lock them try putting the tape around the pipe where the gasket fits then push the gasket down over the tape.
Hope that does it for you !
Mike
charles Howard
Any suggestions on the screw fitting P-Traps to stop them from leaking?
I took apart the shower P-trap to clean out and aid winterizing as its readily accessible in the basement, but despite at least four loosen and re-tighten attempts (by hand – I’ve broken them using wrenches), the shower /top end of the P-traps leaks a little…
Thanks!