This blog post doesn’t fall under the category of electrical stuff, but it is timely and a situation that maybe you can help with. Apparently Flying J is doing some training for their employees who are responsible for filling propane vessels. Unfortunately, some of those employees either didn’t understand, or received incorrect information on what is required before a propane container can be refilled. I have been in contact with FJ regarding this problem and they have asked for specific locations where it has occured so that they can correct the situation at those locations.
Here is what happened: recently I pulled into a FJ to have the tank on my motorhome refilled and was told by the employee that she couldn’t fill it because I didn’t have a recent inspection sticker on it. I was confused and decided to investigate this situation.
Here is what I found. Under the category of propane containers, there are two types that are commonly used in RVs. There are “cylinders” and there are “tanks”. Cylinders are manufactured under specifications from the DOT, the department of transportation. Tanks are manufactured under specifications from ASME, “the American Society of Mechanical Engineers”. DOT requires periodic inspections of “cylinders”, but have no control of “tanks”. The inspection requirements for cylinders must be observed before a propane refill station is allowed to refill your cylinder. This DOES NOT apply to ASME tanks and should not prevent a refill station from refilling the tank which is permanently mounted on most motorhomes. Cylinders are more typically mounted on travel trailers.
When I found this out, I contacted Flying J to advise them about the problem. I also posted my situation on one of the RV forums where I frequently post. From that I heard that others are having a similar problem. My Flying J contact has requested any information on specific locations where this has occured so that they can take corrective action.
If you have had this problem at a Flying J, please let me know the location so that I can pass it on to them.
Thanks, Larry
Good Sam Camping
Call Flying J guest services at 877-866-7378.
Anonymous
Hi Larry, I’d like to ask you a question. Can the manager at a Flying J location that has propane refuse to fill your propane tank simply because they do not feel like going out in the cold? I got to this Flying J in Effingham Illinois at approximately 11 p.m. and told them that I wanted propane and they told me that the propane was closed because there was nobody certified to operate it. I said isn’t the manager certified to operate it? To which the manager standing nearby simply responded “the propane is closed”. So as a result, I will have to freeze all night in my RV. What do you think about this and how should I proceed?
John in BC Canada
I cannot get my built in propane tank filled at my RV site in BC Canada. I have called all the dealers and am told it is against regulations. I have never had any problems in the USA. I have to dismantle everything to drive to a propane station to have it filled. Ridiculous.
larrycad
F East, well, that IS the way it is supposed to be done by the “professionals”.
F East
I have a winnie Rialta with a 30litre LP gas tank on board as normal. The face gauge gets stuck occasionally on filling so if that is used as a guide it can easily be overfilled if the release valve is not opened. I noticed that at 3/4 full it suddenly shot to overfull once; a bit of a scare.
I suggest not using the face gauge as a guide but always the 80% release valve.
Neil Schmidt
My wife and I had our tank filled at a Texaco station in New Mexico. I had no idea that the guy filling the tank had no clue as to how to do it properly. He overfilled it, and 50 miles down the road, the tank allowed the sudden release of propane gas, blowing out the compartment door. We pulled off the road immediately.
Luckily, a refrigeration expert’s shop was nearby. He released the excess propane so it was at the proper level, then marked it so that the next person filling the tank would not overfill it. We could have been killed. I now query anyone who fills the tank and make sure they follow the proper steps, including TELLING them what the maximum level is, and SHOWING them the maximum level mark on the gauge.
D. Brown
I hyave just returned from winter in Florida and we had twice weekly deliveries of propane for either cylinders or tanks. This was in Charlotte County.
M. Joudoin
NOTE: TO ALL MOTORHOMES WHO ARE GOING TO STAY IN FLORIDA FOR THE WINTER, YOU WILL HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR PARK AND TRAVEL TO A PROPANE RV FILLING STATION, YOU CAN NOT GET ANY COMPANY TO FILL YOU UP IN A PARK! SO ENSURE YOU ARE FULL BEFORE STAYING THE WINTER IN FLORIDA!!!
Dave S
I took the certification test for Texas and I am sure it is the same in most places. All cylinders have a date stamped on them. The only thing that needs to be done is to make sure it isn’t over 10 years old when you are filling them. The next thing is for any obvious damage that would be unsafe for you to fill it. All markings on the cylinder must be legible as well. The important thing is for the attendant to recognize these things as well as the proper procedures at the propane distribution tank. If these things are ignored, then all the rest can be to late. If the cylinder you are filling is expired it is probably easier to just buy another one because not just anyone can recertify an expired cylinder.
John J
I work at a big box store in Canada and we fill propane containers but not vehicles. We follow a law that indicates that the bottles have to be 10 years or less and that containers usually 33 lb , 40 lb or 100 lb tanks which have bleeder valves do not have an expiration date. The one overriding factor is the condition of the container. If it is damaged or rusty we don’t fill.
Problems regularly occur because of people who buy from exchange programs. They take in a 2 or 3 year old tank but get back a 9 year old tank and when they bring it into us , it can be expired before they come for the refill. We have to refuse at this point. Needless to say they are angry and feel we are not serving their needs.
I always advise to stay away from exchange programs as the people who are serving you are not certified and don’t have any awareness of the tanks age usually.
Thomas Boling
I have been denied propane at the Flying J at Matthews, MO on two occasions and once at Ehrenberg, AZ.
Chuck S
Harris,
Check the top of the cylinder near the valve guard, the insp date is stamped into the steel near the TW, and GW for the unit. If it is close to 10 yrs old, a small bottle can just be traded at “Blue Rino” exchange site. Here it cost $30 to insp one, can get a 20# exchange for less than $20, the 40# ones are arond $100 so it pays to have them checked.
Chuck S
Manuel,
Flying hook and Pilot merged their fuel supply sources to better serve their respective markets. check out the flying j website, it gives the latest info. http://www.flyingj.com
Chuck S
Gee, that’s funny, I’ve been burning hook fuel in my big trucks for over 30 years and have NEVER had a problem with their fuel, and turning 75-100,000 miles a year, I am sure something would have shown up by now, in fact I pack PDCA fuel cards. I would be curious to know what part of the country this bad fuel is in soo I could put out the work to other big rig drivers, no body likes clogged fuel filters in this kind of weather.
Patti B.
we had a problem w/the Flying J. BAD FUEL. Diesel for our truck $90.00 worth of water. Blew out our ejectors etc. Had the work done once by Dodge in Bremerton, paid the $4500.00, took the truck home, started to go bad on the way home again, found out they never took off the gas tank to clean out all the bad fuel and water. Called our insurance (Allstate), they inspected the truck, and had it towed to another Dodge dealer in another town. Now we are down $500.00 in towing costs. The insurance rep. stayed w/the truck to prove the 1st Dodge facility didnot remove any parts that would designate they had repaired anything. They tried to blame bad fuel on us again. Once The Flying J was notified they said they would discuss it but we had to prove it was their gas. We had the reciepts, but we elected to let the insurance co. file against them. There was so much sediment, water in the tank it caused alot of damage. Now we do not get our gas from them any longer. A friend whom drives truck say he never does business w/them d/t problems. We had early signs as we kept letting water out of the seperator, and it always seemed to be a little to much. Just thought I would write this. I am new to the site. Enjoy reading all of the input writers blog about. I am not to good w/the computer but I can type although my spelling has something to be desired at times. Helpful to see all the comments about different spots to go to. Trouble on the road and areas to keep clear of. Times are hard now and we are thinking of selling our house and seeing the states & sites we have longed to do. Having a house would tie us down. If anyone has any helpful ideas on how to make this happen would appreciate a note. Thanks, Patti B.
Gerald Macleod
It should be suggested to Flying J to contact all their stations and give them a memo on the question on proper giudelines when filling propane tanks and cylinders and not wait for the customer to contact them of a problen.
Regarding cylinders in Canada they have the date stamped on the top side rim regarding a need for recertifcation. Time line is 10 years or shorter if you buy a new tank that has ben on the shelf for a while. It is cheaper to buy a new cylinder than have one recertified in my opinion. I don’t know of anyone who has had their motorhome tank recertfied here.
Gerald Macleod
Manuel Enos
Have never had any problems at FJ. They offer alot of services we enjoy and I was unaware they were being bought out by Pilot. Thanks for info. We usually fill our tanks at a local RV park before starting out on a trip and since we are not full times and cook most of our meals outside on a grill we usuall make it back home before running out of LP in the motorhome. This was very good info though and will keep it all in mind on future trips. Thanks.
J F Tipton
There is not any AIR in a propane tank/cylinder. All air is bled out of the tank at the first fill. Always tell someone that it is the first fill when filling a new tank. When the bleeder valve is opened while filling a tank, the only thing escaping is propane vapor. Filling should be halted when liquid propane begins to escape from the bleeder valve. This indicates the tank has filled with liquid propane to 80% of the tank capacity.
Rolf Salhus
The question was, is the escaping gas propane or air?
Wayne
The regulatory agency for compressed gases is the Compressed Gas Manufacturers Association. (CGMA). This regulatory agency is referenced by OSHA for all issues relevant to compressed gases. Writers who state a specific difference in definition and testing/inspection requirements are correct. CGMA has no testing requirement for permanent /fixed tanks such as those on motor homes. ONLY portable cylinders have a defined inspection and hydrostatic test requirement. Referencing the lightening storm issue, as a Loss Control Professional, in my opinion, the attendant made an absolute correct decision not to refill the propane during the storm. Electrical storms generate static electricity. Electricity of any kind and propane….do not go well together. Good decision on the part of the attendant….regulation required or not.
larrycad
Keep in mind folks, we are trying to explain the difference between propane TANKS, and propane CYLINDERS. These are two different animals and it is worthwhile for RVers to know the difference.
larrycad
Lawrence, FJ may not be perfect, but I challenge you to name a fuel service facility that does a better job at taking care of the needs of the RVing community. I for one and grateful to FJ for what they provide, an overnight parking space, wifi, free dump station with potable water, etc, etc. I am a big fan of FJ and will continue to be as long as they are trying to solve problems.
PeteB
To corroborate what Peter sent in, it is most usually cheaper to get a spanking new propane cylinder, especially when it can be had on sale either at Canadian Tire, Home Depot or similar places of business as most of those retailers aren’t rigged up to replace and certify valves and pressure checks. We do need to go to outfits like Superior Propane and the likes but as mentioned up above, it’s not really worth the trouble, so may as well get a brand new one and ditch the old geezer. Not really ecological, but then again…
larrycad
Harris, you are correct, most FJ propane filling stations are poorly located. When I get mine filled, I have to drive backwards through the pump island which means I have to oppose the flow of traffic through the pumps. What I usually do is send my wife out to block the entrance to the pump island by standing there. It works, but it is a nuisance.
larrycad
Rolf, what you are describing is the correct method of filling an RV tank. Keep in mind that when the tank, or even a cylinder is properly filled, it is filled with liquid, to 80% of the volume of the tank or cylinder. The remaining 20% is to allow the liquid space to turn into a gas. We do not use the liquid form of propane, only the gas. Here are some excerpts from the website, http://www.propane101.com.
The fixed liquid level gauge, also called the bleeder valve is the one and only gauging device that accurately depicts the level of propane in the tank when it is being filled. The face gauge is not to be used during the refueling process. Many people believe that using the fixed liquid level gauge during gas delivery results in a large amount of lost propane. Even if two cubic feet of propane gas is lost through the bleeder valve, this is only .05 gallons of gas. At $2.00 per gallon, this would be equal to ten cents worth of propane expelled through the bleeder valve.
The bleeder valve is designed so that during the filling process, when the propane going into the tank reaches 80%, liquid will come out of the opened valve. This lets the delivery driver know that the tank has reached its maximum filling capacity. The valve is connected to what is called a dip tube that goes into the container. The dip tube is fixed and set at length equal to 80% liquid level tank capacity. In other words, the tip of the dip tube is at the level equal to the container being 80% full. The dip tube itself should always be located in the vapor space and never submerged in liquid propane.
Harris Schultz
We have a different issue with FJ’s propane filling station. Invariably it is located just next to the RV island, and during winter/cooler weather, every monkey and his uncle pulls thru the RV lanes and stops so as to impede RV access. We’ve waited several times for drivers to move, and once when one did another immediately pulled in the vacated space, delaying our departure. I know of 1 FJ where the propane station is far enough away not to be a serious problem. Just be prepared to deal with other customers’ inconsiderateness.
As to cylinder inspections, I was once told by an operator that every filling station must had personnel trained to inspect and not refill the cylinder if it doesn’t meet guidelines. I know nothing about any inspection label, ticket, tag, etc. and we’ve had RVs since the late 80’s. Some service people are better than others, as Tom discovered when an attendant cross threaded his valve. Pray it won’t happen often.
Harris
Jay Sheperd
What do you do when the person filling your propane cylinder doesn’t vent the tank (using a screwdriver) to relieve pressure while he is filling your tank? If the cylinder is not vented to release pressure, the propane pump stops pumping before the tank is filled. Full tank or not, you still pay for a full tank, unless you are being charged by the gallon.
Rolf Salhus
The last FJ station I stopped at was in Phoenix, AZ. When the attendant filled my motorhome’s propane tank, he opened the overflow valve while filling it and a whole bunch of gas came out of that valve. I told him that that was propane gas escaping and he claimed that it was only air. It sure smelled like propane to me, who’s right?
Bill
I live near a Flying J and go there frequently. I have gotten to know most of the propane guys and I have never had any problems.
I think the problem stems from employee A training new employee B. By the time employee B has trained employee C and employee C trained employee D the message has changed a lot. As you probably have recognized these guys aren’t Rhodes Scholars and they are probably just reacting to the information they have been given, wrong or right.
I think it would be good if someone wrote an article on this RV site that describes all the Propane Tank Rules (both fixed and portable) with references to the source of the rule that we RV’ers could print out and discuss with the manager if we have a problem getting our tanks refilled.
Personally I’m not familiar enough with the rules to do it but I’m sure there is someone out there who is.
John Harder
I stopped at a FJ last fall and the guy wouldn’t fill my propane tank because there was a lightning storm in the area. I had never heard that before. The next day I stopped at another FJ and asked the attendant if they shut down the propane tanks if there is lightning in the area. I looked at me like I was crazy. Has anyone ever heard of this before?
M H Bell
Flying J has more problems than just propane and attendants. They have mergered or have been bought out by Pilot Truck Stops. They have also changed their Rewards card for RV’s so that you have to purchase food and other things from their store to get Gas Discount. They say that they will honor the old cards but Mine would not work and I had to get a new one. I could not get my old one replaced. This was in Yuma AZ
They gave me a temp card to use.
Mel
Lawrence Wood
It’s all about understanding customer service…which FJ is not tops, to say the least
larrycad
Gus, I think you are inferring something that really isn’t there. My opinion of their response is that there are very interested in getting this straightened out. You are expressing an opinion of FJ based on what I wrote, not what I have seen and heard. Please understand, they are not strictly dealing with only those places I am reporting, but rather treating this as a company wide issue. They are then placing special emphasis on specific, reported problems to insure the issue is taken care of. Today I received a phone call from the manager at my local FJ, explaning that they had received incorrect information from their propane supplier, Amerigas, and that after discussing this, Amerigas agreed they were in error. It now appears the situation has been corrected. I appreciate the way FJ is handling this because it shows they are concerned about taking care of their customers.
John
Yes i have come across the same problem with the Flying J in Vaudreuil Quebec Canada. The girl that was working there told me that they cannot fill our tank up, I have a 1996 Rexhall Aerbus 33ft she told me that i would have to change tanks, well I told her that she was wrong and went to a propane dealer and he filled it up no problem and he mention that the girl did not know what she was talking about. So Flying j just lost my business. Thanks
John Walden
Qc Canada
Gus Jones
FJ hasa superior system to notify their stations to raise the price of fuel which they should put in operation to notify their stations concerning the tank versus cylinder problem. Seems stupid to wait until someone finally reads your item and lets you know where they had a problem and then you notify FJ. Your FJ contact does not seem overly interested.
Peter
All cylinders in Canada are good for 10 years, (stamped on the protective coller).After this you can have it recertified. To recertify, they change the valve and pressure check.
It is cheaper to buy a new one.
Tom
Flying J has other issues besides a failure to understand the difference between a “cylinder” and a “tank.”
We have been visiting the Flying J on the SE side of St Louis on a weekly basis for the past few weeks. During that time, we’ve seen several different attendants with various levels of knowledge. One individual has a difficult time getting the adapter connected to the tank. Last night was the worst. He cross-threaded the adapter several times but, somehow got it to seat tight enough to fill the tank. (and yes, I offered to do it myself several times but, was told I wasn’t allowed to touch it for insurance reasons). When he removed the adapter, propane was leaking (gas & fluid) from the hookup on the tank. I had to tell him to re-seat the adapter to the tank and open/close the fitting to get it to close properly. He got the adapter connected to the tank very quickly – no cross-threading – and did as I instructed. After that, the leak stopped.
While I understand the insurance issue, I have a problem with attendants screwing up the connection on my equipment such that it makes it difficult or impossible to refill the tank without repairs.
Watch your attendant and ensure they are NOT trying to force the adapter on the tank fitting. It spins on very easily – once it’s started correctly. If they meet resistance, odds are VERY good they’ve cross-threaded it.
tom
larrycad
Doris, I believe that many of the propane refilling stations can do the recertification. I know that the place where I take my cylinders can do it. I suggest you call ahead and inquire if they can do it.
Doris
How does one go about getting a cylinder inspected. Is this done at the fill sites or so we need to take it to a special loation?