Hi, all!
A mixed bag of questions this month: tires, brakes, appliances, propane tanks, and double-towing. Have a great spring, and keep those questions coming! Email your questions to [email protected]
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Hi, Mark!
I consider myself a future full-timer in a 5er. I read somewhere in the Escapees Forum that a “must have” is something that can’t be added later and must be part of the original equipment of the RV. Anything that can be added “after-market” you can leave out of the original purchase and try living without until your experience confirms that it must be added. I have a pretty settled conviction that disc brakes are needed. They don’t fade as much on long downhill grades. You get my thought, I’m sure. My only question is whether it is best considered a necessary part of the 5er’s original equipment or whether it, too, can be something you figure on adding to your rig after experience tells you that it really, truly is better than drum brakes. I write this because I have read that you can convert from drum to discs, but I have no idea of the practicality or cost of it. Is it something to be really avoided or something to be nonchalantly stored away as an idea that you can implement whenever it suits you? Keith
Hi, Keith,
Almost no production 5th-wheels come with disc brakes; most don’t even offer them as an option. However, it is possible to convert later, as several companies offer conversion kits for most standard trailer axles. Bring your Visa card, though, because they are EXPENSIVE! Usually around $700 – $1200 per axle for a complete electric/hydraulic conversion kit last time I looked. Most of these kits will bolt right up and could probably be installed by most competent shade-tree mechanics.
Here’s an example freshly Googled; there are a number of companies offering similar products. http://www.trailerpart.com/ultimateproseries.htm
Are disc brakes better? You bet! They last longer, are less prone to heat fade, and provide more stopping power. Are discs necessary? I’m not so sure. I traveled a lot of miles with my 5ver and got by fine with the standard electric drum brakes. I did keep them in top condition, though, with regular inspection/maintenance/adjustment. On long downhill grades, you’d better be getting most of your braking from engine/gearbox and not riding the brakes anyway! While discs won’t fade as readily as drum brakes, they sure can overheat and either warp, fail, or cause a fire or bearing failure. (Because they won’t fade, discs can produce serious heat, way past the temp where drums would be “smoking.”) BTW, most over-the-road commercial trucks and trailers are equipped with, guess what, drum brakes. Probably because they will stand up to more abuse. I’d wait till you have the rig and operate with it awhile before you decide, unless you have special use needs, like living on top of a mountain or something.
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Dear Mark,
We always read your column with interest. We have been RVing for 20 years and had a fair number of drive-train failures with the vehicles, but never had an appliance failure. Extended-warranty ads tout the high cost of replacing refrigerators (the most expensive appliance). We wonder if, when a RV refrigerator dies, must it be entirely replaced or can you replace its components? Do RV appliances have a higher failure rate than those in a house? Don & Cynthia
Hi, Don and Cynthia,
RV fridges do die, and the most common cause is a failed cooling system. Have the fridge checked: In some cases, it’s just a switch or a circuit board that fails, and that is relatively inexpensive. If the cooling unit has leaked or is stopped up, then you only have two choices: Replace the whole fridge, or just the cooling system. If your fridge is in good shape, a cooling system replacement will usually be less than half the cost of a whole fridge. Here’s a website that specializes in replacement cooling systems, just to give you a feel for the prices. www.rvcool.com Most RV fridges only last 10-12 years, definitely less than a residential unit! RV water heaters and furnaces have a similar lifespan, in my experience, but are less expensive to replace, requiring hundreds, instead of thousands, of dollars.
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Mark:
We pull a 29-ft. fifth-wheel, and we would like to tow a car behind it. I tow a boat behind it with no problem, but I have never seen a car towed behind a fifth-wheel. We would use a tow dolly. We have called our local RV dealer to ask if they knew anything about the laws in regard to this, but they did not know. The same is true of the highway patrol. I was hoping you could tell us something about what is required to tow a car behind a fifth-wheel or where we could find out the information in regard to this issue. Thank you, Jim
Hi, Jim,
There are several issues surrounding towing anything behind your 5th-wheel, often referred to as “double towing” or in some cases, “triple towing.” The first is legal: Many states enforce a total length limit on vehicles or combos, and it varies quite a bit. Other states do not allow you to tow double without a commercial license with a tandem endorsement. I have included a link to a list of towing laws that will give you those max lengths and whether or not doubles are allowed without special licensing. The second issue is safety-related. Since most trailer frames are not designed with such usage in mind, the frame may not be strong enough to safely tow a car or heavy trailer. Even if the frame is strong enough, towing a car on a dolly or towbar will make it impossible for you to back up at all without unhooking the car and dolly. The additional weight affects your ability to stop and may also exceed the tow vehicle’s gross combined weight rating. The last two could subject you to additional liability should you be involved in an accident and it was determined that the additional weight contributed to the accident. I suspect it’s unlikely that you will be able to safely tow this setup with a light- duty truck. A medium-duty tow vehicle may be needed. I would personally recommend against towing this way. The combination of varying state restrictions, licensing issues, and weight issues make it problematic. However, with proper attention to licensing and safety, it can be done.
State towing laws: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm Note: They refer to this type of towing as “triple towing” on their charts.
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Hi, Mark,
I have a 2007 AlumaLite 32-foot travel trailer. I seem to have a serious tire wear problem on the side with my slide. I have had to replace both slide-side tires since I bought the trailer new in May 2007, but the tires on the side opposite the slide are still in good shape just as they came from the factory. I replaced the first tire after about 3,000 miles. It was worn completely to the metal. After about another 1,000 miles (4,000 total), I had to replace the other tire on that side. I notice when backing it appears that the wheels cant out some. I first thought this was an optical illusion, but a dealer told me the wheels actually did this when turning. If this is true, I’m wondering if this might have something to do with the tire wear. Obviously, I would like to learn what may be causing this problem so I don’t have to continue replacing tires this often. I would appreciate your input regarding this problem. Thank you, Tom
Hi, Tom,
I suspect you either have a huge weight imbalance or the axles are out of alignment. Take the rig, loaded normally, to a trailer service facility and have them look at the wheel alignment and check the condition of the axles and springs. With heavy RVs, it’s possible to hit a curb or debris and bend one or both axles on one side of the unit. Once the axles are out of alignment, tire wear will accelerate and lead to early tire failure. If the wheels and axles all look fine, then you need to weigh the rig at a scale where you can get individual wheel weights (corner weights). Escapees has a program called SmartWeigh that offers that kind of weighing. www.escapees.com/smartweigh. RVSEF also offers RV weighing www.rvsafety.com. Check the websites for weighing locations and dates. We’re looking for either a big side-to-side imbalance or tires that are loaded beyond the tire’s max weight rating. You may either have to move items around in the rig to get a better balance or offload some stuff to get the rig’s weight within the ratings of the tires and axles. Once you find out what’s up and fix it, you should stop burning through tires so fast.
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Dear Mark,
Will you please tell me if a propane tank from a 5th-wheel needs to be bled every time? This is a new 5th– wheel. Some dealers top it off to the 80 percent while others top it off and open the side-mounted bleed valve screw. Some say no need to open the bleeder since the valve will only allow it to fill to the 80 percent; others say bleed it every time. I am confused. Thanks for all your help! Howard
Hi, Howard,
Good question! In order to ensure that the tank supply valve delivers only vapor and that normal variation in temperature will not result in the tank’s overpressure valve venting propane into the atmosphere, all portable propane tanks are designed to only be filled to 80 percent of their liquid capacity. In the “olden days” (prior to April 2002), propane tanks were allowed to have only a simple supply valve and an 80 percent bleeder screw. The idea was that, while filling the tank, the operator would open the bleeder screw, and when liquid propane began to come out of the bleeder, the tank was 80 percent full. Then, in “modern” times, a new valve incorporating an overfill protection device (OPD) became mandatory for all 4- to 40-pound DOT portable cylinders in vapor service. This valve is designed to stop the fill process when the tank reaches the 80 percent-full mark, thus preventing inadvertent overfill. The valve also has the original bleeder screw, and some operators prefer to open that bleeder just in case the OPD device on the tank is defective or incorrectly set. Sort of a “suspenders and belt” approach. However, the only truly accurate way to fill any propane tank is by weight, and most states require that the operator weigh the tank while filling it and stop the fill when the tank reaches the correct weight, regardless of bleeder or OPD action. If a scale is used, then it really doesn’t matter whether the bleeder is used or not, as the operator will use the scale to ensure that the tank is not overfilled.
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Mark:
I don’t really think that you have a pat answer to this, other than that is the way manufacturers want it. #1 What is with the manufacturers that code DOT dates on tires so nobody understands them? The codes have changed off and on over the years; also they are dated only on one side. #2 We are led to believe that tire pressure is of the utmost importance. We’ve got to do something about tire safety. I’m sick of tire failure stories. Nathan
Hi, Nathan,
Actually, the DOT tire date codes have only changed once in the last 20+ years, and the format is pretty easy to decipher. Here is the secret decoder ring for tire date codes: The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) requires that tire identification numbers be a combination of the letters DOT, followed by ten, eleven or twelve letters and/or numbers that identify the manufacturing location, tire size and manufacturer’s code, along with the week and year the tire was manufactured. This number must be located on one sidewall of every tire. Most manufacturers only put it on one sidewall, so it can be hard to locate if it happens to be mounted to the inside. For tires manufactured since 2000, the week and year the tire was manufactured is contained in the last four digits of the serial number, with 2 digits to identify the week a tire was manufactured followed by 2 digits used to identify the year. The tire identification code for tires produced prior to 2000 was based on the assumption that no tire would be in service for 10 years. They provided the week and year the tire was built in the last three digits of the serial number. The two digits used to identify the week a tire was manufactured were followed by a single digit used to identify the year. The consensus amongst the tire industry is that tires that are older than seven to ten years should not be left in service, regardless of mileage or tread condition.
Inflation really is a critical element to tire life and safety, as is staying within the load rating of the tire. Overloaded tires and/or under-inflated tires are far more likely to fail. You should never exceed the rated weight capacity stamped on the tire sidewall. The proper inflation pressure for any tire is actually determined by the weight it is carrying, and the “max pressure” often is not the best operating pressure. Most tire manufacturers have pressure charts that provide this information available on their websites, usually referred to as load/inflation tables. However, you’ll need to know the actual weight each wheel is carrying on your rig in order to use these tables. The best way to get that information is usually at an RV rally where RV safety organizations weigh RVs. As I mentioned above, Escapees has a program called SmartWeigh that offers high-quality individual wheel weighing for RVs at permanent weigh sites and select Escapees club events. www.escapees.com/smartweigh. RVSEF also offers RV weighing www.rvsafety.com. Check the websites for weighing locations and dates. Once you know what your actual wheel weights are, you can adjust tire pressure accordingly. Tire pressure needs to be checked, as often as possible, when the tire is cool. Tire pressure monitoring systems that show the actual tire pressure can make a daily pressure check very easy, but good monitoring systems are pricey. They provide a significant added bonus in that they monitor all of your tires while you are driving, but if money is tight, a good tire gauge and some deep knee bends are a lot less expensive and almost as effective.
If folks never exceeded the tire’s load rating and always kept the tires properly inflated, you’d hear a lot fewer tire failure stories!
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Do you have a question for Mark? Please submit your question via email to [email protected].
Please remember, material will be edited. Because of the large volume of material and correspondence submitted, individual replies will be limited to questions that are chosen for publication.
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