Who decides where an RVer may or may not park overnight in the middle of a journey to a distant location? The answer is obvious. It’s the owner or manager of the property where the RVer would like to park.
When RVers consider parking overnight in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart, a Cracker Barrel, a Flying J or other retail business, the person who allows us to park there is the manager of the business. Yet some RVers persist in just pulling in and parking on other people’s property, without asking permission to do so, as if it were a right that’s guaranteed to them by … well, by somebody or other. They seem to forget that if we want to park on someone else’s property, we need their permission to do so.
If it’s a business parking lot, such as a Wal-Mart, the business grants permission for vehicles to park in their parking lot while shopping. But that isn’t the same as permission to park overnight and sleep there. If we want to park overnight, we need to ask permission from the store, from someone in a position of authority to grant that permission. Generally, this will be a store manager or the Customer Service manager. Don’t assume that the greeter or the person who gathers shopping carts in the lot is authorized to give you permission to park. They may or may not know what the manager’s policy is.
“But,” some RVers will say, Wal-Mart’s policy is to allow RVs to park overnight! I don’t need permission!” That’s sometimes true, but not always and not everywhere. Most Wal-marts do allow RVs to park overnight, but there are hundreds that don’t. Those who do allow it often want to direct RVs to park in a particular area of the parking lot.
The same goes for other businesses who generally invite RVers to park overnight. Even if there are marked “long vehicle” spaces in the lot, as there are at many Cracker Barrels and Flying J’s, those business are there for the use of customers during business hours. They may or may not be available for overnight parking, and you don’t know for sure until you ask.
As I research this topic, I’m finding more and more businesses that often allow Overnight RV Parking. Some are fairly widely known for this practice while others aren’t. Some of the chains that sometimes allow it are Cabela’s, Bass Pro Shops, Lowe’s, and Menard’s.
Once again, before parking overnight at these stores or any other business parking lot, be sure you go into the store to ask permission. Some RVers prefer to telephone ahead for permission, so that they can make other arrangements on those occasions when the store says no. But the overriding principle, when parking overnight on someone else’s property, is that we need their invitation and their permission to do so.
Safe travels to you!
Jim O’Briant
Gilroy, CA
Moderator, OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group
Anonymous
In Key West there is a city ordinance no RV parking in retail parking lots, but people feel they are entitled and don’t bother plus they don’t want to pay to park in the Rv park that is near by.
Rv parks are safer, have sump hook ups and power outlets to hook up to.
Overnight in a business parking lot doesn’t have these.
Anonymous
This is not a debate.
People, allow common sense to prevail. Download all-stays, check and see which ones let you stay and which don’t. If it’s unclear, be an adult and ask. Courtesy dictates that you actually spend money at the establishment allowing you to overnight.
Usually it’s not the store with the issue, some towns/cities forbid it because of crime.
For campground owners, I’m not paying you $40/night to spend 8 hours in a garbage rv park when there are other legal options on my route. Free market, ain’t America great?
Tim
Scouts Law answers many of these questions: A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.
Courteous —-ask’s permission when possible or when in doubt
Obedient——- doesn’t park where its clearly known to be prohibited.
Thrifty———-doesnt pay park prices that are half or more the price a of motel when he can avoid it.
And dont forget…..BE PREPARED.
Lenore Slater
At Wal-Mart at one British Columbia location where we were staying while on a shopping trip, a nice employee brought us a ‘VIP’ package from the whole Mall. The package was given only to the RVers on the lot. It supplied both my husband and I with many valuable coupons, coffees, lunches, a special shopping bag, and a $10 gift card each. We talked to the friendly employee and he said the whole mall loved the RVers being there and that we could park anywhere in the Mall parking lot overnight but he recommended we stay on the Wal-Mart lot as he wouldn’t want us to be disturbed by night activities of movie patrons and bus users. We used some of our coupons and gifts and, yes, we did spend more than we were intending at first but we do always patronize the Mall while we are there. In our case, we live in a small community and it is common practice to go to a bigger town to shop. But when we are just stopping while travelling, we do shop at the stores while we are there. I must say, so far it has been a better experience than at the rest spots where overnight stays are quite legal. Unfortunately, at one of our favorite rest spots we have recently been woken by a female begging for money and another time by a drive by shooting of a paint gun. By the way, the paint from these guns were easy to wipe off and clean but the pellets did leave cup shaped dents on the exterior walls of our motorhome (not the vehicle part).
Robert L
I travel in my RV the same way I did in my big truck for years and old habits die hard. , I’ll pull up to the pumps at a truck stop, fill up the tanks, and then find a parking spot go in grab a bite to eat, re-stock the beverages and snacks , then go out to the 5er and take a nice long nap. Get up 4-6 hours later and kick it on down the road. I’ve spent my money with them and everyone is happy.
I can’t see dropping a ton of cash and going through a bunch of work to take a nap . Wastes too much of my time, Most of the dang campgrounds aren’t as level as a truckstop so you HAVE to get out and level if you want to sleep decent in a campground, Truckstops are almost always flat. Granted the noise level from a few hundred engines going isn’t conducive to sleeping for most people, but it’s music to my ears 🙂
I’ve had to park in a few Wal marts on back roads as well with permission, no worries in this part of the country. With my health, I can’t run all day and sleep all night anymore, it just doesn’t work that way. I have to have my catnaps., and I bet I’m not the only one out there.
I’ll get the campground when we get to where we are going, but I’m not wasting the time and money enroute.
Patrick Mann
coming back from ten weeks on the road, I really would like to see the motels that boarder the travel ways offer a place to park that have electric outlets. I have every thing else on board. I would be glad to pay a fee for over night parking just for the convience of haveing a place to park that does not take me too far off my route, offer electricity and maybe a place to have dinnr or breakfast.
2beagles
Just as a point of information, the Flying J website lists each location and the services offered. Most, if not all locations, offer overnight parking for RV’s. We’ve been parking at Flying J’s for a while, and it’s my experience that they welcome RV’ers to stay overnight in their parking lots. Most even tend to have someone in charge of organizing the RV’ers in the lot. If the RV spaces are full, they will designate another area to stay, or will tell you to park off to the side over by the truckers. The only time they have a problem is when a fire lane is blocked, or if spaces for the restaurant are talen by RV’ers. Even then, if you are gone by 6AM, it’s not a problem. We just returned from Christmas in Florida, and we spent four nights in Flying J’s. Because of their RV policy, we bought alomost all of our fuel there, and whenever we stopped for coffee, snacks or whatever, we patronized Flying J. We were asked nicely to move once which we did IMMEDIATELY, and when we had to park in a non designated area once, we asked for advice from the attendant who was very helpful. (BTW, the grief he was getting from some other RV’ers was embarrassing!)
Larry Harmon
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypOszBZYLcI
George Wharton
If at all possible we will not stay in any town that prohibits overnight stays in parking lots. If the towns don’t what me to park in commercial parking lots, they don’t get any of my money.
Stan Lesniak
One more time on overnight parking! Our family spent thirty days on the road this year from June through July. The road trip took us from our home in PA to California, along the coast through Yosemite and back along the northern state along route 80. So, we had plenty of stops at Wal Marts across the country. Firs rule of thumb…courtesy is the ONLY answer! We asked about parking, even if we were shopping. While asking we asked about overnight parking, just for future references. Overwhelmingly across the country and without exception, when talking to managers, they were pleasant and informative about overnight parking. We found only one place that county ordinances prevented overnight parking. And for the most part everyone was pleased that we had asked first. We did manage one overnight stay in Alabama. The store manager had a nice chuckle, and then explained that it had been more then a year since anyone had asked and stayed the night. We spent a great night in their parking lot, and the kids enjoyed the experience of sleeping at Wal Mart.
Dave Bertrand
What’s the point of travelling around in an RV you paid through the nose on (to cut-back on rent or mortgages) and then have to creep across the country til the next retirement check, while paying for gas/diesel that far exceeds the cost of driving a small economic car…..and whammo, you get hit with most RV Park/Camp Grounds charging rates as if they were in the middle of Disney World.
It’s almost cheaper to just buy a comfortable car, travel around to see kids and relatives (to sleep free) and stay at Motel 6 type places with a pool, cable, and continental breakfast…. and not have to deal with hooking this and that up, while Mr and Mrs. Snoop study you from their bay window condo on wheels.
For me…I travel the back roads, stay-off the interstates, and when I feel like stopping for a night or a few nights, I carefully look at the situation and decide if asking permission would be non-productive, or worthy of my dollars I spend there.
If we worry too much about being politiclaly correct when it is not necessary (excluding Wal*Mart) then we take all the fun out of living on the road, experiencing whatever we want to experience, anywhere we want to, within reason, but with a sense of creativety and professionalism.
Until camp ground RV parks drop their rates to a level that makes living on the road less expensive than having to stay in motels, many of us with limited income will have to be creative and by-pass the RV parks. Paying monthly rents of $600 plus electric, while paying $450 to $600 monthly payments for the RV is stupid!! A nice furnished studio apartment in the same town runs about $600 including electric. Only problem….no place to park the 30 foot dog house.
Chris
Daniel,
Exactly.
Some of the posts look rather suspicious, don’t they?
What camper in their right mind wants to pay exhorbitant fees for parking a few hours, at least unless they are snobs who enjoy bragging about how much money they are able to spend.
Look up the term “SHILL” on Wikipedia. It’s a term everyone who reads comments on the web should be familiar with.
Somewhere else, I remember reading that if a site that affects special interests has three comments on it, at least one is probably from a “Shill”.
Large companies actually have “professional shills” that surf the web looking for references to their company; in order to make positive comments about their own products, or try to discredit people making negative comments. They even make negative comments about competitor’s products. This has become so common in “reviews”, such as for motels, consumer products, etc. particularly those that give “number of stars”-type ratings; that on some sites about 50% of the comments are from shills.
It’s likely that the RV park industry has shills surfing the web regularly.
Daniel
If I were a campground owner and wanted to discourage people from using free ovenight parking lots instead of my $50+ business, what would I post on a public forum? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………..
I bet I could ID at least 3 posters so far that are affiliated in some way with a campground.
Truely, we need to support those businesses that welcome us and avoid those that dont. Thanks to all that welcome RVer’s!
Jim O'Briant
Lynne is right that many (but not all) Camping World stores allow Overnight RV Parking. since many don’t, you’ll need to ask the store for permission, either by arriving in person before the store closes for the day, or by telephoning ahead.
Many Camping World stores do have dump stations, but by no means all of them.
We have many of the Camping World Stores listed in the online searchable database at http://www.OvernightRVParking.com. These listings tell whether Overnight RV Parking is allowed, and usually include whether permission is required, where in the lot to park, and other details.
Jim O’Briant
Gilroy, CA
Administrator, http://www.OvernightRVParking.com
Moderator, OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/OvernightRVParking/
Lynne Caulkett
I just found out that a lot of Camping World stores also allow overnight parking. And they have dump stations you can just pull in and use. This came in handy for me traveling from Michigan to Florida. Happy travels!
Scott
I spend a couple of nights a year staying at a Walmart, with permission arranged in advance. I make no excuses for it, I plan it into my trips. I leave late to travel to a halfway point, arriving 11-12 pm. In the morning we pick up some supplies and head out. I don’t tell others how to spend the money they earn. People seem to believe that campgrounds that may be in the area have an entitlement to my hard earned money. Sorry, they don’t. Strange that this is so controversial. To get to the moral of this story, yes I do consider it a privilege to be able to stay overnight.
Jim O'Briant
Glenn wrote:
> Have stayed at a Wal Mart in North Haven, Ct. several times.
However, the Wal-mart website says there is no Wal-mart in North Haven, CT. The closest one is at 2300 Dixwell Avenue in Hamden, CT. Perhaps this is the store you mean?
> Manager always says yes, security sometimes says no. Go figure?
Not an unusual occurrence. There are many Wal-Mart stores where the store does not own the parking lot, and the security personnel are hired not by the store but by the parking lot owner. Often, their policies differ.
Jim O’Briant
Gilroy, CA
Administrator, http://www.OvernightRVParking.com
Moderator, OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/OvernightRVParking/
Overnight Parking Blog: http://blog.rv.net/
Jim O'Briant
Zippypo wrote:
> With Wal-Mart I have found the security person on duty will let you
> know whether or not you can park there. I was at a Phillipsburg NJ
> Wal-Mart store said ok and I was set up in a out of the way spot
> and security came by and said no Campers allowed. I have a slide
> in camper so I just take up one spot.
It sounds as if you parked without going into the store and asking permission to park overnight. We always recommend asking permission before parking overnight in any retail store parking lot. And it’s best to be sure that you’re asking someone who is authorized to state store policy, such as a manager, the customer service manager or the customer service desk. Asking a clerk, cashier, greeter or the person who retrieves shopping carts isn’t a safe bet for receiving correct information.
> Ended up down the road in a Lowe’s parking lot. The manager said no
> problem there. …
Lowe’s appears not to have a national policy on Overnight RV Parking. We’ve receive lots of reports on Lowe’s that will allow it, and about the same number that don’t allow it.
> Safest bet in NJ is the truck stops. I found the Pilots very
> accommodating to me.
Our http://www.OvernightRVParking.com database has very few “YES” locations in New Jersey, but I expect that’s just because RVers haven’t reported on them yet.
> New England camping is the hardest places to find a spot to park
> with out being hassled.
There are more New England places than you might expect. For example, the New Hampshire Park & Ride lots are one good bet, and we’ve been receiving reports on more and more smaller department stores and supermarkets that welcome RVers to park overnight.
Jim O’Briant
Gilroy, CA
Administrator, http://www.OvernightRVParking.com
Moderator, OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/OvernightRVParking/
Overnight Parking Blog: http://blog.rv.net/
Claudette Roth
Yes ,I have to parked at a truck stops ,cracker barrels or other spots,I ususally ask permission , never stay at Walmart .. I find that there are few rv parks open in winter coming from Canada ,, With a large country coach ,I find that the area are small in rv parks or I have to watch for low entrances, when coming down ,as far as Utah . But I try to make it to my disegnated parks that I have booked ahead.
Glenn
Have stayed at a Wal Mart in North Haven, Ct. several times.
Manager always says yes, security sometimes says no. Go figure?
Zippypo
With Wal-Mart I have found the security person on duty will let you know whether or not you can park there.
I was at a Phillipsburg NJ Wal-Mart store said ok and I was set up in a out of the way spot and security came by and said no Campers allowed.
I have a slide in camper so I just take up one spot.
Ended up down the road in a Lowe’s parking lot. The manager said no problem there.
Shopping malls usually work for me for the day camping.
Safest bet in NJ is the truck stops. I found the Pilots very accommodating to me.
New England camping is the hardest places to find a spot to park with out being hassled.
Rick
We have stayed at Walmart, Cracker barrel, and other business locations. We ALWAYS ask for permission and have not been turned away yet. As for those who adamantly refuse to stay in any parking lot, I say either you have an elitist “better than that” attitude, or you have way too much money. As a retired Government Worker, our funds are limited and staying at a campground for 6-8hrs having to pay $30 to $50 is way out of line especially with the cost of fuel. We just got back from a 3 month trip coast to coast and not once did we stay in a parking lot. That’s not to say we wouldn’t, as we have in the past, we just didn’t this trip. The cheapest CG we stayed at was $28 a night. That’s still too much for just a place to sleep. And this was in the middle of SD prairie with nothing for miles.
Sheila Allison
The very first time that I ever had the privilage to pull a camper was 10 pm on a rainy windy night and after several hours and no campground in sight there was a Wal-Mart. I was never so happy in my life when I got permission to park overnight. This was about 1am and I am very thankful that I finally found a place that gave me permission. They know that by letting us we will spend money there for something which we did. Hot coffee and donuts and then on our way. What a trip for me. It is great to find a campground but sometimes they don’t exist in the area that you happen to travel in. Near our home is a garrage that lets people stay in their campers while the tow vehicle is being repaired. Never know when or where you will end up parking or staying. Maybe even in our front yard with permission.
Gary Achee
Geez,
It took me a while to read this blog but I have some input. I was a catastophic adjuster working claims in Florida a few years back. Four hurricanes. I drove my class A, towing my pick-up, from New Orleans to Fort Lauderdale, nonstop except for fuel. I was dog tired and it was late in the evening and I had no knowledge of the area and naturally I jumped off the Interstate to an empty shopping center to relieve myself, check my map and get some bearings on my location and generally try and form a plan for the night. I did not set up camp nor did I even kill the engine. Immediately, a police unit pulled up and the officers very rudely told me to keep that rig moving. I told them of my plans and that I had just pulled in five minutes ago. They reiterated to leave “NOW”. I could see that I had to respond quickly, so I left. I found a Holiday Inn and got a room mainly to be able to park my rig. I asked the clerk and he said it would be ok since I was a paying customer ($100). After I secured my rig, I went to my room, showered and went to bed. One hour later, I was awakened by an angry knock on the door. The police had found me again and told me to keep moving and that I had thirty minutes to leave the parking lot or I would be towed and impounded. This was brutal on me. They were nice enough to explain to me that I could park my rig in a campground or storage only. I said fine, refer me to a campground and I’ll go there. They snickered and walked away reminding me that the clock was ticking. I checked out after getting no refund or even a part of a refund from Holiday Inn and hit the road again for the remainder of the night just driving around and wasting fuel. I was delerious with fatigue and considered just letting them take me to jail. At least I could get some sleep. I found a campground the next morning and set up camp for the next four months. I had a few more very bad experiences with the police while there and I was a law abiding 55 year old man that had a quad by-pass one year earlier. Was this any way to treat a citizen? If any police from the Lauderdale area and surrounding towns read this I’d like to say there is no money on earth that would get me back there. You are the worst. I’m only saying all this so that RVers are aware of ordinances against us and backed by crude, rude uniformed jerks with guns. Oh, by the way, I carry a police commission and I don’t ever remember treating anyone like they treated me. Y’all be carefull out there. Gary
Ken - nm9p
A while back, Jim said… “I know I’ve never seen a notice at an RV park that said “Arrive after 9 PM, park without hookups and depart by 9 AM for $10.00,” or anything of the sort.”
Just an interesting side-note: About 27 years ago, my bride and I were on our honeymoon/camping trip, campng in a converted 1975 Chevy Van. We stopped at about 7 PM at a campground in Tennesee that had a note on the office door that said…
“We’re on vacation…have free a night on us.”
We spent a night for free with electricity and showers. (I can’t remember which campground, or even what town it was in.) It showed a lot of trust in the RV community.
I have never seen a similar sign anywhere else in 27 years of van/RV camping..
Ken – NM9P
Jim O'Briant
I have to say that in my personal opinion, “Wow’s” comments about some other comment writers here is as unfair as the comments to which he refers.
Folks, we can discuss things without invective or name-calling. Please do so.
Thank you.
Jim O’Briant
Wow
I cannot believe the nerve of the folks that called the over night parkers of being cheap.
I’m willing to bet these are the same folks that grew up being snobs and looking down on what they percieve to be someone/thing less than them.
Those folks are folks I’m glad I dont have to park beside at walmart when I’m in transit!
Jim O'Briant
traks2go Says:
> If find it interesting after reading this blog, that the moderator
> appears to SLAM anybody who voices their opinion against
> staying at a Walmart or other similar location.
A couple of clarifications:
1. I’m not the moderator. I just write a weekly blog on Overnight RV Parking, and respond to comments about what I write.
2. Actually, it was some of the earlier comment authors who were slamming RVers who choose to park overnight at Wal-Mart and similar locations, accusing them of “poor planning” and being”cheap.” My belief is that if they (including traks2go) don’t want to use RVs in this manner, that’s fine. I don’t criticize anyone for staying in a campground or RV park, and I said that over and over again in my comments above. Similarly, those who prefer campgrounds and RV parks have no need to criticize those who accept the hospitality of businesses who permit Overnight RV Parking and who park (not camp) for no longer than the store allows.
> I myself will not stay at a Walmart because that is my choice.
And you are 100% entitled to make that choice.
> An RV’r or trucker that is bone tired, by all means get the heck
> off the road and get some sleep. That is much appreciated and
> I agree with this 150%.
And I agree with this.
> People abuse this generosity of a Walmart or other similar location
> when they stay more than 1 night, put the jacks down, slides out
> and awning. I have seen this so many times that it looks like it is
> a tail gating party.
Again, you’re correct. However, there are a few Wal-Marts that welcome stays of more than one night on a regular basis. One in Texas even has long marked RV parking spaces in the lot and signage that states that RVers may stay up to three nights. Still, that isn’t an invitation to “set up camp,” it’s just an invitation to park for more than one night.
> My trips are ALWAYS planned so that I make my destination without
> having or needing to look for a Walmart. I utilize the RV parks,
> campgrounds etc.
If you’re able to plan every trip in such a way that your plans never go awry, then more power to you. If those plans are ever disrupted by weather, illness, traffic conditions, etc., however, you may wish to utilize an Overnght RV Parking location due to circumstances beyond your control.
> Like it has been said before in this blog and was stomped on,
> if you can’t afford the campground or RV park and utilize
> Walmarts for this only reason, sell your RV and quit this lifestyle
> and go back to airplanes and motels.
After accusing me of “stomping” on the comments of others, now you’re stomping on those whose who disagree with you, by implying that the only reason people park overnight at a “host” business is because they can’t afford to do otherwise. That’s simply an unfair and inaccurate accusation. Just as you have the right to spend your RVing nights in campgrounds or RV parks, those who utilize Overnight RV Parking locations have every right to that as well.
“Live and let live” is a two way street.
Jim O’Briant
traks2go
If find it interesting after reading this blog, that the moderator appears to SLAM anybody who voices their opinion against staying at a Walmart or other similar location. I myself will not stay at a Walmart because that is my choice. An RV’r or trucker that is bone tired, by all means get the heck off the road and get some sleep. That is much appreciated and I agree with this 150%. People abuse this generosity of a Walmart or other similar location when they stay more than 1 night, put the jacks down, slides out and awning. I have seen this so many times that it looks like it is a tail gating party. My trips are ALWAYS planned so that I make my destination without having or needing to look for a Walmart. I utilize the RV parks, campgrounds etc. Like it has been said before in this blog and was stomped on, if you can’t afford the campground or RV park and utilize Walmarts for this only reason, sell your RV and quit this lifestyle and go back to airplanes and motels.
Jim O'Briant
About half way through this long string of comments, there was one about Overnight RV Parking at Service Plazas on the Ohio Turnpike. As I mentioned there, I contacted the Ohio Turnpike Authority for their latest information regarding RV spaces at Service Plazas. The brochure they just sent me was the same one I’d seen earlier, with a publication date of May, 2006. Six of the Turnpike’s plazas have a limited number of RV Spaces, with electric and water hookups and a dump station, for $15/night on a first-come, first served basis.
Future blog entries will discuss Overnight RV Parking in rest areas and similar places, and we’ll get more details to you then.
Safe travels,
Jim O’Briant
Jim O'Briant
I agree with nearly everything “beaverdance” says. However, his comment includes this statement:
“If it’s 10:00 PM and you, the owner of Deep Pockets RV Kingdom Resort have space open, and somebody–ANYBODY–goes right on by because their campground directory says you want $75 to stay there overnight, well, then, you’ve lost whatever money that they WOULD have paid to stay there.”
True at face value. But at most of the campgrounds I’ve stayed at, an RVer arriving at 10 PM will find an office that’s been closed (and in some cases, the front gate locked) for hours. If the RVer can enter the RV Park, all he finds is a note showing which sites are open, and an envelope for placing his money — at the full regular rate — through the mail slot on the office door.
Yes, a lot of RV Parks have open spaces on most nights, and they’d be wise to offer those spaces to overnighters for a minimal fee, with or without hookups or other amenities. But most of them don’t have anyone on duty to let an inquiring RVer know what’s available, or to check them in and take their payment. I know I’ve never seen a notice at an RV park that said “Arrive after 9 PM, park without hookups and depart by 9 AM for $10.00,” or anything of the sort.
I’m sure there are exceptions the above generalizations, and that there are some RV parks whose office stays open with someone on duty late into the evening, but in my experience they’re few and far between.
But we’re getting rather far afield from the topic of whether Overnight RV Parking in a business parking lot with the permission of the business is a privilege or a right.
Jim O’Briant
beaverdance
I vehemently disagree with the contention stated by some here that the option for RV park owners to set aside certain areas to park and hook up, but to not use the other park amenities–in other words, to just stay the night and head on out the next morning–would be economically unfeasible, because of all the money they’ve put into their campgrounds, etc. etc.
Well. That’s certainly true if a RV park builds out to every single available square foot, crams in as many spaces as it can, and finds that it sells every single spot, every single night, for the full premium asking price. If that is not the case, then that park is throwing away money by having space unoccupied that could otherwise be generating revenue. If it’s 10:00 PM and you, the owner of Deep Pockets RV Kingdom Resort have space open, and somebody–ANYBODY–goes right on by because their campground directory says you want $75 to stay there overnight, well, then, you’ve lost whatever money that they WOULD have paid to stay there.
Note that this has nothing to do with what the SELLER (the RV park) THINKS the space is worth. If it goes unsold, the revenue from that space is ZERO. It’s like an airliner taking off with empty seats. Sure, Deep Pockets RV may feel that a full service laundry, swimming pool, tennis courts, dancing girls, and a dedicated staff who will fight each other for the privilege of cleaning your RV with their tongues JUSTIFIES charging $75/night. That doesn’t fly in the real world, if people aren’t willing to pay it.
This is a simple economic fact: something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Thinking otherwise is what causes so many small (and large) businesses to fail.
Jim O'Briant
Eric makes an excellent point. Many RVers have reported asking permission to park overnight at one store or another, only to have the store say, “We’re happy to have you park overnight here, but the local police may give you a ticket.” There appear to be very few Wal-marts where a “No Overnight RV Parking” policy is the result of the store manager’s decision rather than a local ordinance.
Jim O’Briant
Eric
As a Wal-Mart associate (truck driver), I will say that many of the no parking stores are a result of local ordinances rather than the store itself not wanting RV parking. There are many stores I deliver to that we cannot even park our own company truck on our own company owned property. Make the delivery and leave.
Skipper_DC
Jim,
You’ve articulated your points very well. For the most part, I agree with you. Although, I do think we should not limit ourselves to one approach. Thanks for an insightful blog.
Jim O'Briant
“Skipper_DC” is concerned about too many RVers pestering Wal-mart managers for permission to park overnight. I think that’s a misplaced concern.
There are more than 5,000 Wal-marts, and each one is different. In most cases, the staff or manager at the Customer Service desk will know the policy. Sometimes they may refer you to the manager on duty or to store security, but they usually know. The stores where they don’t know the policy appear to be stores that receive relatively few requests for overnighting permission. And, reflecting Skipper_DC’s concern, there are indeed a few Wal-marts that have told RVers that they should just park in an out of the way place in the lot, and do not need to ask permission.
The principal causes of Wal-marts not permitting overnight RV parking are (1) RVers who abuse the privilege by setting up camp rather than just parking, (2) RVers who stay for days or weeks instead of one night, (3) RVers who leave trash behind in the parking lot or — worse yet — dump waste tanks in parking lot storm sewer grates, and (4) pressure from local campgrounds to pass local Anti-RV “No Overnight Parking” ordinances.
“Tarantula” says, “If you can’t afford the campgrounds, stay home!!”
It appears to me that Tarantula believes we all have to do everything exactly the same way he does. I guess we all better ask Tarantula what kind of an RV we have to buy, what food we have to carry with us, which campgrounds we have to patronize, and what activities we have to pursue when we’re camping.
I also guess that nobody should ever camp on public lands where camping is free (such as BLM or USFS designated dispersed camping areas), according to Tarantula. Nor should we avail ourselves any of the many free campgrounds in small Midwestern and Southern towns, many of which have been in operation for decades.
I’m sorry, Tarantula, but you appear not to understand the difference between “going camping” and “pulling over and parking to get a few hours of sleep before driving on in the morning.” It also make it appear that you believe we all have to use our RVs exactly the way you do, or not use them at all. Your remark is short-sighted, uninformed, and simply does not reflect reality.
You’re more than welcome to go to any campground that you want to patronize and that you can afford. Other RVers are equally free to accept the hospitality of businesses who welcome RVers and the dollars they spend.
Jim O’Briant
Tarantula
If you can’t afford the campgrounds, stay home!!
Skipper_DC
If a Walmart manager is interrupted to answer the same “can I park here question?” twenty times a night wouldn’t you soon add it to the growing list of those store locations that no longer allow overnighters?
Jim O'Briant
“ioscoal” says he has never stayed in a free overnighting location. That’s his decision, and he is welcome to patronize campgrounds whenever and wherever he chooses. If he prefers not to park overnight in locations where the host business welcomes RVers, that’s his decision and there is nothing wrong with that.
He also says he observed abusers who stayed in a Wal-mart for three nights. Most of us have seen RVers who abuse the overnight parking privilege, but that doesn’t mean we approve or condone it. Neither does it mean that the majority who park overnight with permission and in accordance with generally accepted courtesty guidelines are all abusers; nor does it mean that we should all stop utilizing overnighting spots just because someone else is selfish or stupid or both.
I also believe that it’s faulty logic to blame RVers use free overnighting locations from time to time as the cause of RV parks going out of business. An RV park is like any other small business. It must be run so as to attract business, and it must price its services so that it turns a profit without pricing itself out of the market.
In several years of RVing, I’ve used free overnighting spots only half a dozen times or so. When we’re out in our RV, we’re almost always in a campground. There are campgrounds to which we’d like to return as often as possible. There are also some whose infrastructure is so dilapidated, or whose staff is so unfriendly, or whose prices are so outrageous ($70/night or higher), that we make it a point not to return to them. Poor management, including failure to maintain the property, failure to attract business, and poor pricing decisions, is what causes small businesses — including RV parks — to fail.
ioscoal
In all the years we have been RV’n, we have never stayed in a free over-nighter. We make use of Campgrounds, that are there for that reason. There are too many Parks going out of business for me to want to help them out of business. When we buy these good, nice rigs, we can also afford to pay to park over night. I have seen 3 rigs, that were in a group spend 3 nights, that I know of, in a Wall Mart lot. Each morning, the 3 rigs would go down the road to a beach for the day, then at night back to the Wallmart. I also pointed them out to the store manager, and she said RV’ers should stay one night
Now tell me they went and shopped each night. I hardly doubt that. I already know my opinion will not set good with all the ones that use these free lots.
Lets all HELP the RV Parks.
Redbeard
Walmart parking in Oklahoma City. If you’re passing through the middle of the country along HWY 40 and want to stop in OKC, the WalMart in the western part of the city has posts covering every entryway into their parking lots with the sole purpose of keeping RVers out. (Located off HWY 40 & MacAurthor). So instead take HWY 240 loop south of the city and get off on Santa Fe. That Walmart actually has RV & Tractor Trailor spots to park in and welcome overnighters. The 240 bypass has less traffic, more resturant selections to pass by, all with ample parking and the bypass doesn’t add any distance to your trip, if you’re just heading east/west. You can also park at the Walmart off HWY 40 & Sooner on the Eastern half of the city by Tinker AFB, but that parking lot is much harder to get into. Happy RVing!
Redbeard of OKC
Ken Beaman
I have parked overnight at a Wal-Mart, Flying J, and Cracker Barrel and have asked permission in every case. Not my first choice, but at the time of year (Feb ruary) and the location (Pennsylvania) there were no campgrounds open in the area where we wished to stop for an extended rest (overnight). Had a campground been open we would have phoned and arranged for a space for an overnight stay, but since that was not an option we took the opportunity to take advantage of the hospitality of the organization involved. In both cases where Wal-Mart and Cracker Barrel were concerned, the managers we spoke to were very pleasant and wished us a pleasant rest. Also in both cases we purchased goods prior to turning in for the night. The privilege of being able to stay for an overnight stop was exactly that and asking for permission first is simply a courtesy that is due for that privilege. We will no doubt do the same thing again given the circumstances, but will always ask for permission first.
Jim O'Briant
I agree with much of what “Pioneer Claims” says in the previous message.
However, he/she also wrote: “The fact is, most Wal-Mart, Cabella’s, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. have clearly posted signs in their lots which prohibit overnight parking.” That statement is simply not correct.
From all the sources I’ve examined, I believe there to be between 300 and 500 Wal-Marts that do not allow Overnight RV Parking, out of more than 3,500 stores (Wal-Mart Stores, Wal-mart SuperCenters, and Wal-mart Neighborhood Market Stores) in the USA and Canada. Virtually all Cabela’s stores have Overnight RV Parking, including dedicated parking spaces at some stores. The majority of Lowe’s and Home Depot store parking lots don’t have signage one way or the other.
Where these stores do have posted “No Overnight Parking Signs,” the wording varies widely.
* Some say “No Overnight Truck Parking,” and RV parking is just fine.
* Some say “No RV’s, and they don’t allow any RV in the lot at any time, day or night, for any reason including shopping.
* Some represent an agreement between the store and the city or other legal jurisdiction that the store will allow overnight RV parking, but will call the local police to evict problem cases (and the signs are necessary for this to happen). I personally don’t agree with such “selective enforcement,” but in some places, that’s the way things work.
* Some say “No Unauthorized Overnight Parking,” but if you ask and receive permission you become “authorized.”
* And some mean just what they say, “No Overnight Parking,” and it’s enforced by the local police.
I agree with “Pioneer Claims” comments on those who use awnings, grilles, BBQ’s etc. in parking lots. And those who dump waste tanks in the sewer grates belong in jail.
Jim O’Briant
PioneerClaims
One more point…
The fact is, most Wal-Mart, Cabella’s, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. have clearly posted signs in their lots which prohibit overnight parking. As stated earlier, those signs may only be management’s attempt to “control” abuses in parking. Thus, it stands to reason that anyone wishing to TRESPASS, in violation of these posted signs (whether or not they purchase something at the beginning or end of their overnight stay, are quite arrogant in their thinking that it is “okay”.
Also, the real irritating thing is those souls who have the nerve to actually pull out the slides, awnings, tables, etc. and setup camp. That takes real nerve. One time, I actually saw a nimrod with his sewer hose draining into the parking lot’s drain grate!!! DISGUSTING and highly illegal.
Imagine how aggrivated you would be if a complete stranger decided to just pull up into your front yard or driveway at home and set up camp… How irritated you probably get when someone simply turns around in your driveway and accidently roll onto your lawn.
You know who you are. It’s about time someone pointed it out to you.
For those of you who this doesn’t apply to, I apologize, but some things just need to be said.
A few factoids to consider:
1. Asking PERMISSION is better than begging FORGIVENESS.
2. Parking Tickets are not cheap.
3. Do Unto Others… (remember that?)
4. Once permission is granted, park away from the business’ main traffic flow.
5. CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES.
6. 3 a.m. wakeup knocks by the police are never pleasant.
7. Common sense and common courtesy are never out of style.
Jim O'Briant
SJK wrote: “… Ohio built new rest areas along the Ohio Turnpike which have overnight parking for RVers. …”
Only six of the 14 Ohio Turnpike Service Plazas have special RV parking spaces, and they’re not brand new. The most recent Turnpike “RV LOTS” Brochure that I’ve seen is dated May, 2006. The spaces have E & W hookups and a dump station. The fee is $15/night, and there is no reservation system — all spaces are first come, first served. IF the spaces are full, free overnight RV parking (no hookups) is available in the “overflow lots,” at all 14 Service Plazas.
This information was correct at the time I added it to the OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group Listing in July 2007. I’ve just emailed the Turnpike Authority for an updated brochure, in case there have been any changes.
Jim O’Briant
Don Ashley
Ken NM9P is so on the money (Mar 12th) it actually gives me hope for humanity. I like to think most people are grounded in common sense as is Ken but all to often the D.Park (Mar 11th) of this world shove thier self righteous view points the loudest.
SJK
This may be a little off topic but just for FYI Ohio built new rest areas along the Ohio Turnpike which have overnight parking for RVers. These stops actually provide electrical hook-ups, a water fill area and sewer dumping station.
Mark
While I agree it is a Privilege to be able to park for (free) ……it is not up to the casual observer, or other want to be “IN CHARGE” person, to guess the probable actions of others.
While I have parked overnight in Cabellas, Wal-Mart, Casinos , it has NEVER been Free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I spend a considerable amount of money, at each of the above establishments when I am there. It would be far CHEAPER , to park in a campground …………………..HOWEVER, the campgrounds are far off the interstates, main roads, etc. (for good reason), and I am only looking for a few hours of sleep, to SAFELY continue on my journey, to where I was heading.
So, while many may feel it is their right to “Tell me I shouldn’t be doing it, BECAUSE they DON’T, ” It is also my choice to spend my MONEY, at places that WANT my business.
Again, it is a personal issue, based on each persons needs, and neither way, hurts anyone really.
Jim O'Briant
Thank you “Pioneer Claims,” for approaching Wal-Mart overnight parking in this manner. If all RVers would do this, instead of just driving in like they owned the place and parking wherever they wantm without permission, we’d see a lot more stores and communities being a lot more receptive to having RVers park overnight. Showing a bit of humility by asking permission, and showing gratitude for their gracious permission, both go a long way toward building good will.
Jim O’Briant
PioneerClaims
As a travelling catastrophe insurance adjuster, I find the need to stop for an occasional overnight stay at the Wal-Mart in the town where I will be handling claims, prior to establishing more conventional camping central to the area where I will be working.
I have ALWAYS walked into the store, filled a shopping cart with the perishible items I don’t carry on the long drive to that town, and, prior to checking out, I seek the manager on duty, to get permission for the overnight stay.
I was quite fortunate on several occasions to have had the manager actually invite me to park on the auto service center side of the business, and even plug into their electrical and water service.
I want the manager to know that I am seeking permission, thankful for the favor, and that I am a Wal-Mart customer.
Jim O'Briant
Thank you, Seraphim, for clarifying the role of the local police in at least some situations.
If I interpret your message correctly, you’re describing a situation where there is no local ordinance against sleeping in an RV in a parking lot with the company’s permission.
Reports to me from RVers indicate that in many jurisdictions where there is an Anti-RV “No Overnight Parking” law in effect, the police may come onto the property and ticket and/or evict RVers without any participation by the store. In other jurisdictions, the store still has to be the one to call the police, and in still others, the police will act against the offending RVer if there is a complaint from anyone, including neighbors, passers-by, etc.
Jim O’Briant
seraphim
As a police officer (in Ohio): the manager of the store, acting manager, or senior employee is the representative of the company. If they say you’re trespassing, you’re trespassing. Generally, in my experience, they will merely ask you to leave and be content. If you are asked to leave – by a police officer at the direction of the company’s employee – and you do not, you are committing a crime and wil likely be charged for trespass (unles the employee relents and gives permission to remain. Not likely). Store policy does not dictate the officer’s actions, the stated instructions of the on-site employee does. SOme employees are decent enough, others will just call the cops so they don’t have to confront anyone.
I’d recommend alaways asking beforehand, to avoid the trouble and possible embarrassment of being asked / instructed to leave.
Again, I can only discuss Ohio’s laws. Other states may be more or less restrictive in this regard, but I suspect the business’ rep will always have the final say.
Sterling Fritz
Ken – NM9P brings up an excellent point about hospitality. When businesses extend the right to park to RVer’s they are showing hospitality to strangers, and it usually benefits them in terms of good will and yes, even sales. Hospitality is a two way street, and it serves no one when anyone in any situation abuses the hospitality shown to them. Whether it is permanently “camping” in the Walmart parking lot, or houseguests overstaying their weekend invited visit. I do think that too many campground owners seem to forget that they are in the “hospitality” industry. That is a subject for another forum. I apologize if I did not take into account those times that RV travelers are forced by emergency circumstances to find alternatives to campgrounds. This is why it is critical that persons using any private business for overnight parking use common courtesy so that this hospitality will be extended to the next RVer. Great discussion thread.
Joe W.
The theme of this thread is: “Overnight Parking—a Privilage or a Right” not Overnight Parking—To Stay or Not to Stay”. Jim has sparked a discussion regarding the appropriate etiquette RVers should observed when overnighting at locations that permit, maybe even invite RVers to park in their parking lot overnight.
I always find it amusing when the sanctimonious make rash and categorical assumptions. In this instance, anyone who OVERNIGHTS in a parking lot is camping and a cheap Charley who should be ashamed of themselves for not supporting local campgrounds or for improperly planning their trip. Overnighting in a parking lot or truck stop with the owner’s permission, or when permitted by law at a rest stop or picnic area may not be your cup of tea, but please spare those that do the high and mighty admonishment for doing nothing wrong.
Yes, I’m one of the unwashed who has overnighted in rest stops, Flying J’s, and even Wal-Mart parking lots. On our first trip in our previous TT, issues with the hitch a mere 80 miles from home forced us to overnight in a rest stop. Road conditions on the first day of another trip prevented us from getting to the RV Park holding our reservation. Thank goodness Flying J welcomed us. A late spring snow storm forced us off the Interstate and once again into Flying J. An unexpected family emergency forced us to cut short the last segment of cross-country trip and to get from the Deadwood area to Jacksonville, FL ASAP. 2 rest stops and a Wal-Mart later we reached Jacksonville. Rolling down miles of highway and not finding an RV Park or rest stop anywhere and getting dangerously tired, that Super Wal-Mart was like a desert oasis. Discovering late on a Saturday afternoon after getting off the Ocracoke Ferry at Cedar that we had a tire problem and finding EVERY tire shop between Cedar and Moorehead City closed, left us no choice but to pull in to Wal-Mart. Oh, in this instance we committed a gross transgression by unhooking our TT (For some reason their lift wouldn’t accommodate both TV and TT). It was well after dark before the repair work was completed. Seeing we were tired, the very friendly auto parts manager invited us to overnight in the store’s parking lot. Shot me at dawn for poor planning and failing to meet your expectations
Andrew Orton
Great advice!
Jim O'Briant
Ken, I wish I’d written your comment. Well said.
Jim O’Briant
Ken - NM9P
I have overnighted in numerous places with enthusiasm and without guilt.
This includes discount store parking lots, well known and unnown truck/fuel stops, family and friend’s driveways, church parking lots, and many municipal parks & county fairgrounds (which often are available out west for one to three nights for free or for a few Dollars).
I ALWAYS ask permission and park where asked, which is only common courtesy.
I never stay more than one night, unless the owner says it is OK.
When we arrive at destination, we usually stay in natonal parks, national forests, or state park campgrounds, but sometimes other accomodations are welcome, too.
Am I cheap? SURE! So what? Spending money unnecessarily is stupid and only reduces the amount I have left to enjoy the rest of my trip, feed my kids, or plan for retirement. We can’t all be rich enough to wase 30-40 bucks just to crash overnight while traveling 4 days to the final destinaton.
I think people are forgetting an old tradition from the pre-automotive days. When people traveled via horseback or wagon, it was common to “make camp” by the side of the trail on public lands, or on someone’s ranch or farm, to overnight before continuing the journey. Hospitality ruled, and in many places it was the code of the road that travelers had the right to sleep as long as they didn’t damage property or poach cattle. Some landowners were inhospitible and woulld run people off, but most of the time people passing through were welcome, but squatters were not.
Enter the automotive age, the motor-hotel, and the campground owner.
Using the local government to guarantee that others passing through your town are forced to pay you rent, when others are perfectly willing to extend a hand of hospitality for free, is a flagrant misuse of government authority. It establishes in effect a government mandated monopoly.
Appealing to “Health concerns” to prohibit overnighting because a couple of idiots dumped their black water in the town down the street is also as dumb as prohibiting people from bringng their children to Menards because someone’s two year old once peed in a toilet in the pluming department.
PRIVATE property is just that, private. If the owners want to allow others to overnight, or even to camp with grills, awnings and lawn chairs, that should be their priviledge and their right. (though I think “camping” in overnight locations should be strongly discouraged.) Just because someone’s hospitality causes you to lose imagined business is no reason to pass laws against it. If you want to protect your business, offer a better service, advertise better, or change your attitude. Don’t look for the government to create a monopoly by denying the rights of others.
Ken – NM9P
Jim O'Briant
A few thoughts regarding the previous 4 replies ….
XBoater says, “For a campground to say it was not practical to charge an “Overnight Fee” for just that, is a joke. It was an un-paid for spot and any fee is more than they were receiving.”
My comment wasn’t about campgrounds letting RVers use a regular spot at a reduced rate, it was about campgrounds setting aside a separate area for Overnight Dry Camping or Overnight Parking. This would require setting aside acreage for that purpose, which would in turen prevent its use by campers paying the full rate. If a campground were to offer “regular” camground sites at a reduced rate, with no use of hookups and no use of other amenites, for a very modest fee, than what XBoater says is absolutely right. However, there’s still the issue of having someone there to check in possible late arrivals, rather than closing the office at 6 or 8 PM.
TX Brad’s observations are correct about weather-dependent season closing dates for private campgrounds. Many publicly owned campgrounds, however, open and close for the season based on the calendar rather than the weather. As for threats of legal action for running one’s generator, I’ve personally seen or read nothing about this. Most complaints about RV generators, as they relate to Overnight RV Parking, are about noise rather than air pollution.
Thanks, Sue and Brenda, with your comments. I generally agree with everything you’ve said (except the part about Virginia being “the worst place” for RVs — I’ve never RV’d in Virginia…..)
Jim O’Briant
Brenda
To answer the question:
It is my opinion that parking overnight anywhere but at home, for no charge,is a privilege.
I fear that this privilege is being abused and regarded as a right by many and is in grave danger of being taken away. This observation is made after reading all the previous posts here, only one of which answered the question, and many hundreds of others elsewhere on the net)
As others here have stated, sometimes there is a NEED to overnight in a parking lot. This to me would signify that uncontrolable circumstances have prevented me from reaching my PLANNED overnight stop.
There are too many people who confuse “need” with “want” or “desire”.
I am not a campground owner, nor am I in any way related to any owners of campgrounds nor do I ever intend to own a campground.
MovinSue
I recently travelled from a morning appointment in Baltimore south via I-81. What a nightmare! We needed a place to stay because of husband’s dependence on oxygen equipment and, MANY of the campgrounds along I-81 were closed for the season. The few that were open could not accommodate our 40′ size for a pullthru. It was 35 degrees and we travelled for 500 miles throughout the night, using our generator power for medical equipment, furnace and coffeemaker and using Cracker Barrels, WalMarts and Rest Areas to rest. Thank goodness for the “kindness of strangers” such as Cracker Barrels and WalMarts and…I definately think of OP as a privilege! (Needless to say, we could hardly wait to get out of Virginia–possibly one of the worst places in the nation for RV’s (along with Maryland and DC)
TXBrad
Having traveled in the North East in late fall, many camp grounds ( incl. State & Federal )are listed in the travel books being closed around October 1/ 15/ etc. They close because water waste freezes their utilities. And, most don’t have Snow removal equipment. But, there are great days travel in the North in the Fall.
One park operator told us to just callcheck w/ him. As long as no snow & freezing,he welcomes RVs, cabins rentals, etc. They want the income & repeat visits. This fellow said he had a big group sch. for Halloween get together.
I’d like Rv parks to have an area for 1 over night Day stay. Also, we had a “bad” weather day Rain/wind/cold ! By mid-day, time to park & not even set up.
Also, be aware that some of these “clean air green folks are ticketing truckers for idling more than 10 min. at truck rest stops. So, they will get you for running coach generator more than 10 min ! New cash crops for city ! tx Brad
XBoater
This has been an informative read, there certainly are many strong opinions as to the act of overnight parking.
First off for anyone that uses “store parking lots” for non-shopping parking, this is Private Property, you have no right to use this lot. The store gives implied consent to use it only for customers. It is only proper to ask permission if using THEIR lot for overnight parking.
I find it bothersome for people to imply that “campgrounds” have some reserved right to be the ONLY place where you can park an RV overnight. Wal-mart has just as much right to give permission to use their lot “Free-of-Charge” as a campground has to charge you. For a campground to lobby the government to block the use of private property is wrong, period.
Trust me Wal-mart does not offer this as a free gift to all comers, it is done to make money. If a campground were to be innovative and try to attract “overnight business ” they would not charge someone the same fee as they charge for a 24hr camper that uses the electric, water and other amenities. For a campground to say it was not practical to charge an “Overnight Fee” for just that, is a joke. It was an un-paid for spot and any fee is more than they were receiving.
Welcome to the “FREE MARKET ECONOMY”
To be honest, I have overnighted at Wal-mart on several occasions. It was only during a multi-day drive between point A & B. All but 1 time I have asked for and received permission. The 1 time, we were late arriving at the campground which we had reservations due to a large traffic accident. The gate was locked and no one answered the intercom. I asked for a refund of the lost night and received only a hardy laugh in return. Needless to say I won’t be returning there.
Welcome to the “FREE MARKET ECONOMY”
Jim O'Briant
Carl Hyde mentions RVers who set up camp for a week in a store parking lot. Those folks do indeed give all RVers a bad name, to the extent that they are one of the prinicipal reasons cited when cities and towns ban overnight RV parking entirely.
Responsible, good-citizen RVers park for one night only where it is permitted, with the permission of the business involved. Our cause is damaged every time an irresponsible RVer, parks where he/she shouldn’t, “sets up camp” in a parking lot, or stays several nights (or weeks or more) where the store’s policy is one night.
Our cause is also hurt inadvertently by well-meaning journalists who write feature articles on “camping at Wal-mart” when their article is really about “overnight parking at Wal-Mart.” When they fail to draw the distinction between “parking” and “camping” they further the misconception that “camping” in business parking lots is perfectly all right. I hope that we all know the difference (if not, please see my blog article from March 1), and that we’ll point out the difference when others say “camping” when they mean “parking.”
Jim O’Briant
Carl Hyde
My wife and I in the past have tried to use Campgrounds while Traveling. However, we became tired of pulling in at night filling in Late Arrival Envelopes (checks or CC) and later when morning comes having the office(s) refuse the GS discounts or other applicable credits. It is not 30-50 for a six hour sleep that bothers me as much as the attitude of the campgrounds.
At first we were upset with some we would see come in, not pay then leave before the office opened. I personally do not think thats right. However, I can understand why some would do it. thirty plus to park is a rippoff.
Now we hit Wall Marts, Truck stops and rest areas when we can get a space. We also check with the store manager first to see if we can stay and where, then do our shopping. Learned that also the hard way.
On complaint I do have is with the people that setup for a week in the store lots. That gives all of us a “Bad Name”. A few ruin it for everybody.
Jim O'Briant
I think that Bob’s right in suggesting that Wal-Mart invites RVs to park overnight because they want us to shop there. It’s an old joke that “free parking” at Wal-Mart may be a lot of things, but by the time you get through the check-out lane, it certainly isn’t free!
Jim O’Briant
Jim O'Briant
Gary’s suggestion that campgrounds provide space for dry camping, or for “hookups only, no other amenities” camping, has been set forth by many others as well, in a variety of different Internet discussion groups.
The campground owners generally say that it isn’t a practical or profitable use of their land, and I think they’re right. Once they’ve gone to the expense of building a swimming pool, showers, restrooms, laundry room, game room, and all the other things that campgrounds can offer, it doesn’t make financial sense to rent out space for less mone, with the condition that these amenities not be used. Campground owners feel the same financial pressures as any other small business owner, and they need to maximize their revenue from the available space.
Some campgrounds will allow an RVer to park overnight in an overflow area, or without using hookups, but they appear to be relatively few and far between.
To echo what “jim” wrote above, Overnight RV Parking as we discuss it here may not be everyone’s cup of tea. Nothing wrong with preferring to spend every RVing night in a campground, if that’s what one prefers. But neither is there anything wrong with parking overnight in a non-campground location that allows or even encourages it. Obviously it’s a topic in which a lot of people are interested — if it weren’t, the OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group wouldn’t have grown to more than 5,000 members in less than 14 months of existence, and this blog wouldn’t be generating as many comments as it has….
Jim O’Briant
bob
I have used a Wall Mart only 2 times to rest over night, I found it a welcome site as I was traveling for a month to somewhere else. Thank you Wall Mart. Also I don’t have a Wall Mart close to my home and when ever I do shop at one I know that I have always spent well over $150.00 in their store. Also close to that when I Park in their lot overnight. I think thats what they had in mind in the begining. Love to camp/RV but love the free Parking when needed. (Needed )being the thought…. Bob
jim
D Park appears to have used the shotgun approach. I don’t believe that everyone that “parks” overnight in a business lot feels that it is owned to them. I have not stayed in a parking lot overnight, I have parked, eaten at a resturant them napped for 20-30 min before returning to the road. Four years ago while driving from Ohio to Florida we were a few minutes behind a large fatal traffic accident on I75. We sat for 5 hours. We ended up in a camp ground about 100 miles down the road from there because we had a camp ground directory with us. But I can see parking at a Walmart as a viable option in that scenario. If you don’t agree with the practice of “parking overnight” then don’t, since you don’t, the rude practices of others won’t impair your ability to park there. so move on and be happy.
Gary
I have never overnighted for free anywhere but I would if it was possible and safe. I feel that the campgrounds along the interstates are causing thier own problem, I do not want to spend $40 or $60 to sleep for 6-8 hours and leave. I believe that if a campground near an interstate that would put in a large paved area with electric and water, charge $15 a night, you arrive after 10:00, no pool use, ect…..that they would find that there would be a lot of people that would plan their trip to make that stop.
As for Target telling me I wasn’t allowed to park in their parking lot to shop….I would have gone back inside, asked for the manager, and returned all of the items that I had purchased. And told him why I was doing it….
Jim O'Briant
D. Park has managed to accuse thousands of RVers of all sorts of things, all in one paragraph, from taking upon ourselves the privilege of overnight parking, to lack of planning, to wanting special discounts on fuel.
There are some facts of which Mr./Ms. Park may be unaware.
The original idea of parking overnight in Wal-Mart parking lots came from none other than Sam Walton himself, who extended that invitation to long-haul truckers. While the corporation has no “official” policy on overnight RV and Truck parking, Wal-mart allows its managers to set that policy, store by store, within the bounds of applicable local laws. Wal-Mart wants the business that RVers bring to their stores, and most stores are more than happy to have RVs park there overnight.
Yes, those parking lots are for customers during business hours, but at the store’s discretion, the space may be offered for other purposes. We’ve all seen such things as bicycle safety courses, charity events or fund raisers, or Christmas tree sales in various large parking lots. These non-parking activities occur because the business wants them there. The same goes with Overnight RV Parking — it occurs where and only where the business wants it to occur.
D. Park also seems to think that every RV trip can get from point A to point B in one day, and that if an RVer can’t do that, then there is a terrible lack of planning involved. This is simply not the case. Rather, it’s often a matter of planning where one’s overnight stops will be, based on the locations of businesses that invite RVers to park overnight and based on the RVer’s deadline to be someplace, often thousands of miles away.
As I mentioned in above replies, it isn’t a matter of not being able to afford a campground for the night, it’s usually a matter of NOT NEEDING to pay for a campground for the night. Also, in some areas the campgrounds are closed for several months of the year, and many campgrounds don’t accept arrivals after very early evening hours. RVers’ carefully planned travels often occur in the campgrounds’ “closed” season. A very long day of driving often ends late at night, long after campgrounds have closed their offices and locked the gates for the evening.
D. Park also asks, “What’s next, wanting special discounts at the fuel pump because you own an RV?”
Again, Mr./Ms. Park appears to be unaware that Flying J has created a special “RV Real Value Club” which is free to RVers, and which provides fuel discounts that increase with the amount of monthly purchases. RVers didn’t picket Flying J to demand this, Flying J offers it to attract RVers to their fuel pumps.
None of this reply is meant to say that there’s anything wrong with patronizing campgrounds, either publicly or privately owned. Nor is there anything wrong with using one’s RV only when and where campgrounds are open, nor with planning the day’s driving to end at 4 or 5 PM to check into a campground where the office closes at 6:00.
But neither is there anything wrong with an RVer accepting a business’ gracious offer of a place to park overnight and sleep, any more than there was anything wrong back when Sam Walton first made the same offer to truckers who had to log their required “off the road” hours. If there were anything wrong with it, there wouldn’t be literally thousands of businesses inviting RVs to spend the night in their parking lots, and also graciously accepting the dollars that those same RVers spend there.
Jim O’Briant
Jim O'Briant
Mark points out a store that wants no RVs in its parking lot at any time. There are relatively few of those, but there are a few. The Wal-Mart SuperCenter at 8288 Cincinnati Dayton Rd, in West Chester, OH is an example. My personal feeling parallels Mark’s — if they don’t want my RV in their lot, they don’t want my money in their till.
Jim O’Briant
D. Park
Never have, never will (Sleep, Overnight, or what every term you want to hang off of it) at Wally world, Camping world etc. Never ceases to amaze me that some people think they should be able to sleep overnight in a Walmart or other type of parking lot. There are a dozens of semantics being stated in this blog, but the original intent of a business parking lot is to “park” during business hours, not because you didn’t do enough planning to make it from point A to B without driving tired. If you can afford to RV or full time etc etc, plan your trip a bit more accordingly and find yourself a NPS campsite or RV Campground and “PAY” for it. What’s next, wanting special discounts at the fuel pump because you own an RV?
Mark Skotek
I went shoping at TARGET in Sandusky Ohio while traveling in my motor home. It was about noon ond I parked out of the way taking up two parking spaces. Thirty minutes later we returned to our RV with a cart full of items we purchased. There was a note on my windshield from security stating that RV’s are not allowed to be in their lot. They stated, anyone with an RV wishing to shop at TARGET shoule park in SEARS or JC PENNY or other adjoining parking lots. I felt it is not fair that I park in a lot at a place I am not shopping and go next door to do so. For me it is no more TARGET.
Jim O'Briant
Robert, you make an excellent point regarding campgrounds, and you’ve touched upon another important cause of the loss of our overnight parking privilege in some areas.
Some campgrounds lobby to have overnight RV parking banned everywhere except in campgrounds, but they refuse to stay open year-round, and refuse to accept new arrivals later than 6 or 8 PM. That seasonal schedule doesn’t meet some RVers’ needs, and that hourly schedule doesn’t meet other RVers’ needs.
I’ve seen it suggested that if campgrounds in a community succeed in having Overnight RV Parking banned, part of the local ordinance should also require that those campgrounds be open year round, and keep their offices open and accept arrivals 24 hours a day. This isn’t a workable solution, but it does make the point that if campgrounds want to prevent RVers from using the services of others, they should be equally willing to provide those services themselves. When Overnight RV Parking proponents bring up this point, the campgrounds generally have no answer for it.
I, too support campgrounds, and most of our nights in our RV are in campgrounds. On one 15-day trip, for example, we spent one night at a Camping World, one night at a Cracker Barrel, two nights at two different Wal-marts, and the other eleven nights in three different campgrounds. We use Wal-marts and similar one-night parking locations just as I always describe them — as a place to park and sleep when we need no other amenities, while on a journey of 2 days or more to a distant place.
Jim O’Briant
Robert Brady
I have enjoyed reading everyones comments on overnite parking. The city I come from debated this issue last summer at the request of two campgrounds that felt they were losing bussiness as Walmart was allowing parking. I wrote a long letter that basically stated that over nite parking was sometimes required as campgrounds do not open in our area very early or close after labour day. Also at nite when you are running late and can not make a park which has a locked gate, of which two have in my area, Walmarts are a welcome site. I totally agree that we need permission and life has taught me that the best course of action is common sence.Support those who allow us the benefit and it will be around for some time. Our council voted not do anything about this issue at this time but if it is abused I am sure it will come up again. I support campgrounds in my travells and have only slept at Walmart once, but I do believe that the option needs to be there in time of need. Safe R.Ving
Jim O'Briant
Thank you for your comments, John.
I’d never try to talk anyone out of spending a night in their RV in a campground or RV park, whether it’s a commercial campground, a state park, or anywhere else.
As you mention, you may want to park overnight at some point in the future, and communicating the “dos” and “dont’s” and the places where we can park are the objective of this blog and the OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group.
Jim O’Briant
John Queck
I have never parked in a parking lot. The only time I was tempted to was when I got into town at 11:00 pm and felt bad about pulling in to a camp site with my diesel rumbling. That too is rude and I felt bad, but I had already paid for the site. Besides, that is why we camp. We spend hours talking with our “neighbors” for the nite. That is one of the most enjoyable parts of any trip.
There probably will be a day when I resort to an overnite stop in a parking lot, but it will never be my first choice. I am glad to know where I might be able to do that and thanks for the blog and location files.
Eric Young
I agree wholeheartedly with Sterling Fritz. I can understand maybe stopping at a WalMart lot at lunchtime for driving break (and also a shopping break!), but I always have reservations at campgrounds for overnight stays. We did a cross-country trip in 2002 and always had a campground in which to spend the night. Let’s support the campground owners who are providing us with a real place to stay!
Jim O'Briant
For some reason, a couple of replies that I posted earlier were online for a few minutes and have now disappeared. I’ll try to respond (again) to some of the above comments:
Sterling and Eric say that they don’t want to camp overnight at Wal-mart. That’s good, because Wal-Mart does not want people camping in their parking lots. PARKING ovenight (not camping) is what we’re talking about here. For more details, please see my blog entry on the difference, dated March 1.
Sterling and Eric both also say that they want to support local campground owners, because they do provide us with places to camp. I see nothing at all wrong with this, especially if an RVer wants or needs the amenities that many campgrounds provide.
On the other hand, when an RVer is on a multi-day journey, and needs no amenities at night other than a place to park and sleep, there is no need to pay $20-$80 (yes, in some areas RV park spaces go for that much money), just to arrive in the evening, sleep for a few hours, and then drive on in the morning. And THAT is what this entire blog topic is about — overnight RV parking, almost always for one night only, and usually in the middle of a multi-day trip to a distant destination. Those who, in this situation, park overnight at Wal-mart aren’t being cheap, they just aren’t spending money for campground amenities that they won’t be using. And the majority of them DO stay in a campground or RV park when they reach their destinations.
Mike Costello commented on local ordinances that ban Overnight RV Parking in some cities and towns. He’s right. Many stores have told RVers, “We have no objection if you park here overnight, but the local police may give you a ticket.” Unless an RVer knows with certainly that Overnight RV Parking is legal in a given community, then it’s advisable to ask the store (either upon arrival, or by phone ahead of time). The store generally knows the local law and will tell you.
Jim Quinn mentions picnic areas rather than rest stops as overnighting locations. Since he mentioned Texas, I’m guessing (and only guessing) that he’s referring to the 900+ “Roadside Picnic Areas” that are found along Texas highways, and which TX considers separate and distinct from “Rest Areas.” Many RVers traveling in TX do prefer these smaller Roadside Picnic Areas, as they’re often quieter. But they’re usually smaller, too, and may have room for only 1 RV rig at a time, so it’s first come, first served.
Jim O’Briant
Sterling Fritz
Personally, I do not plan on camping at Wal-Mart anytime soon. I assume that if I am traveling in my RV that I should make arrangements for overnight accomodations at campgrounds during my journey. This is my way of supporting campground owners. I appreciate trying to save money, but in my humble opinion, people who consistently abuse parking priviledges at the businesses mentioned in the article are just being cheap. Therefore, if want to continue to have this FREE campground available for you, then you should spend some of your time to find a person who can give you legal permission to park. As Jim Quinn said in his post, even if chain stores may allow overnight parking, local ordinances may overrule this. Courtesy is never a wrong choice.
Darrel
I agree with the 2oldman. I use to always ask permission and never was I denied so after getting the run around more times than not just to get a “well of course it’s OK to stay here all night” I quit asking. I use the same guidance as 2oldman does.
Mike Costello
Also, be aware that some cities are passing ordinances forbidding parking or stopping overnight in commercial business parking lots. It does not make a difference whether the store manager gives you permission or not. Nor does it depend on whether yoy are self contained or dry camping.
Jim Quinn
I’ve always asked permission to park overnight at WalMarts around the southwestern/south central United States. I’ve also made sure to buy something while inside the store. It’s a courtesy and besides–I always needed something.
The only time I’ve not been welcome to stay is when there has been a local ordnance against overnight parking at a single store and I simply cannot remember that city in Texas. Otherwise I have had nothing but pleasant experiences with the store employees while asking their permission. I park as far away as possible from the front doors and away from any traffic lanes so as to not overstay my welcome, and I never have stayed more than a single night at any one place.
When I’ve traveled the interstates I generally stay at a park or a picnic area but not at a rest stop. I don’t need the restroom in the rest stops and I don’t want to take a spot away from a weary traveler. Picnic areas are more quiet, unused at night and secure. Too, the picnic areas generally are more scenic than rest stops and usually are not nearly as crowded.
Jim O'Briant
Sandee, you’re absolutely right about courtesy.
And you’re right about RVers as a class being penalized and losing the overnight parking privilege in many cities because of the selfish and self-centered actions of a few. Some of them have set up camp in parking lots, rather than just parking. Some have assumed that they could stay in a parking lot for a week or a month or more when the store’s policy is just one night. Some have, through chance or thoughlessness, parked in a place that inconveniences store customers or delivery trucks.
Good manners are never out of place.
Jim O’Briant
Sandee
We are going to begin full timing and this has been a “hot” topic! We have asked various camper about this and got varied answers. I like the thinking in this article. Courtsey can never be wrong. We need to be aware so other campers aren’t penalized for those who are not so courteous.
Jim O'Briant
2oldman wrote:
> It’s not been my experience that asking permission is necessary
> or even advised.
Unless you are absolutely positive that a given location allows overnight RV parking, and unless you are certain which area of the parking lot they prefer you to use, that’s a pretty risky policy.
> If other RVers or truckers are parked in a Walmart lot, I’ll go there.
We did that, the very first time we ever wanted to park overnight at a Wal-mart. We pulled in about 10 PM and parked next to an RV that was already there. Ten minutes later, that RV left! They were shopping, not parking overnight. So then I went into the store and asked about overnighting. The store said “yes,” and requested that we park in a completely different area of the lot.
There are also reports of cases where an RVer pulled in, saw anotehr RV there already, and didn’t ask permission. They didn’t know there was a problem untl 3 AM when the local police pounded on the door, woke them up, and escorted both RVs to the city limits. The first RVer had’t asked permission, and the second took your approach. They both paid with an interrupted night’s sleep and an expensive parking ticket.
> If it’s signed NO OVERNIGHT CAMPING, I don’t.
In general, this is a good policy, but there many recorded cases where these signs don’t tell the whole story. Some stores have such signage, but it’s there only to allow selective enforcement by local police when there’s an RV that overstays their welcome or causes other problems. It never hurts to ask. If they say “no,” you’ve confirmed that store’s policy. If they say “Yes, but for one night only” or something to that effect, you’ve found an overnighting spot without further driving. (And if you ask by phone, ahead of time, their answer may save you additional miles, one way or the other.)
> I’ve asked a few times but it’s often greeted with the blank
> stare (”I don’t know”) …
In this situation, you’ve either asked the wrong person (such as a greeter or shopping cart retreiver, whose job doesn’t include store policy issues), or you’ve asked a person who hasn’t been fully trained. That’s not your problem, that’s the store’s problem. If the person doesn’t know, ask to whom you should speak for permission.
> … or, go talk to so and so (who’s busy), …
If there’s a specific person you need to talk to, then you wait until they’re free and ask them. They’re running a business, and not only do they control how their parking lot is used, they get to set their own priorites on what they do first. If you have to wait, you have to wait. It’s a small price to pay for a free overnighting spot.
> or the look of “why are you asking.. just go park.”
What’s the problem here? That is a “yes.” So then ask, “Is there a particular area of the lot where you prefer that RV’s park?”
The reason we ask is the reason we should ALWAYS ask: It’s someone else’s property. The law in most states is specific: motor vehicles have permission to park in a business’s parking lot for the purpose of shopping at that business, and the business has granted that specific permission by virture of the fact that they have a parking lot for customers. Any other use of the lot — including parking overnight either before or after making purchases in the store — is not “parking while shopping” and is at the discretion of store management.
What it boils down to is this: We simply shouldn’t use someone else’s property without their permission. It’s not just a matter of legalities, it’s a matter of common courtesy.
Jim O’Briant
Gilroy, CA
Moderator, OvernightRVParking Yahoo Group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/OvernightRVParking/
Overnight Parking Blog: http://blog.rv.net/
2oldman
It’s not been my experience that asking permission is necessary or even advised. If other RVers or truckers are parked in a Walmart lot, I’ll go there. If it’s signed NO OVERNIGHT CAMPING, I don’t.
I’ve asked a few times but it’s often greeted with the blank stare (“I don’t know”) or, go talk to so and so (who’s busy), or the look of “why are you asking.. just go park.”